Theos-Talk Archives (April 2006 Message tt00813)

Daniel,

The real issue is that blind obedience vows may be good for an "Esoteric Vatican", perhaps --  not for the Theosophical Movement.

Therefore Robert Crosbie broke no vows. This is what matters for us all to understand: vows are NOT  dead letter commitments to outer "authorities".

Is that clear? Happier now? Real vows relate to the Heart Doctrine... 

Best regards,  Carlos. 

De:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com

Para:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com

Cópia:

Data:Fri, 28 Apr 2006 19:05:32 -0000

Assunto:[Spam] Theos-World "....denouncing Robert Crosbie...." ???? and other questions

> Carlos writes:
> 
> ===================================================
> Daniel Caldwell has been denouncing Robert Crosbie, the ULT founder, 
> for having NOT kept a vow of blind obedience to K. Tingley.
> ===================================================
> 
> Now I ask readers of Carlos' words, is this really
> true?
> 
> Carlos has at least 3 different thoughts all rolled up
> in this one statement.
> 
> First of all, have I denounced Robert Crosbie?
> 
> Last time I checked, I have done no such thing.
> 
> I simply raised certain questions.
> 
> And did I characterize the vow Robert Crosbie took as 
> "a vow of blind obedience to K. Tingley"?
> 
> I assume this is Carlos' estimation that Robert Crosbie
> took "a vow of blind obedience to K. Tingley."
> 
> Exactly what was my focus when dealing with the underlying
> issue?
> 
> I simply went back to the pledge HPB sent
> to all individuals who wanted to join her esoteric school.
> 
> See:
> 
> http://blavatskyarchives.com/espage3.htm
> 
> Especially the part that reads:
> 
> "I pledge myself to preserve inviolable secresy as regards the signs
> and pass-words of the Section and all confidential documents.
> 
> "So help me, my Higher Self."
> 
> And focusing in:
> 
> "I pledge myself to preserve INVIOLABLE SECRESY as regards . . . all
> confidential documents." caps added
> 
> And on page 2 of the same document, it reads in part about
> preserving:
> 
> "The Secrecy of the documents of the Section . . . unless absolved
> from such secrecy by the Head of the Section."
> 
> Robert Crosbie took this pledge. And he pledged to preserve
> INVIOLABLE SECRESY regarding the E.S. confidential documents.
> 
> And as indicated in the document, HPB expected all her E.S. students
> to preserve this INVIOLABLE SECRESY "unless absolved from such 
> secrecy by the Head of the Section."
> 
> So my question was simply when Crosbie decided to distribute copies 
> of these confidential documents to new students starting in 1909, 
> was he "absolved from such secrecy by the Head of the Section"?
> 
> And let me again take an example and ask readers to consider the 
> implications, etc.
> 
> Let's say Carlos had lived back in 1888 and had taken this pledge
> and joined HPB's esoteric school.
> 
> And then let us suppose that Carlos at some point in his life gets 
> the idea that he wants to share the E.S. documents with a few close 
> friends. 
> 
> Mind you, Carlos isn't going to publish them publicly, that is, 
> print copies and sell them through, let us say, a public bookstore, 
> he is just going to circulate them privately to a few friends. 
> 
> He may only let them borrow his copy and read the instructions or he 
> may write out portions of the whole instruction or even let the 
> friend borrow it who then writes out either portions of or the whole 
> instruction.
> 
> The obvious question is: 
> 
> Is Carlos actually preserving "inviolable secresy" regarding these 
> documents when he does these things?
> 
> Notice in the example I give Carlos is NOT publicly circulating
> copies, but only privately circulating his copy or extracts or maybe
> even a complete handwritten copy of his printed copy to chosen
> individuals. 
> 
> But again is he actually preserving "inviolable secresy" by doing 
> such things AND furthermore was he "absolved from such secrecy by 
> the Head of the Section"?
> 
> I give the above example because there are similar cases and
> historical material from 1888-1891 relating to this very issue.
> 
> As I read the pledge and related material, the pledge is binding FOR 
> LIFE. Even HPB says this in several documents.
> 
> See also the document titled "Book of Rules", reprinted on pp. 285-
> 286 of THE ESOTERIC PAPERS OF MADAME BLAVATSKY. See:
> http://esotericpapers.net/
> 
> Here we find that esoteric students were NOT to COMMUNICATE them
> [certain documents] to anyone not already in the esoteric school.
> 
> Furthermore, no member was to DISCUSS the teachings given in the
> E.S. or DISCUSS any of its confidential documents with outsiders.
> 
> So would Carlos have being abiding by his pledge [see above] by
> PRIVATELY circulating copies of these E.S. documents to outsiders 
> and NEW people?
> 
> Food for thought.
> 
> Daniel
> http://hpb.cc
> 
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> Yahoo! Groups Links
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> 
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