Theos-Talk Archives (April 2006 Message tt00049)

My understanding of initiation is that the neophyte must first master himse=
lf, become a centre of  honesty, truthfullness and compassionate before he =
is given the keys to the mysteries of life.  That is knowledge of our true =
existence, knowledge of all the planes in nature, knowledge of our universe=
,etc.  If this knowledge was given to one who was not fully in control of s=
elf (i.e. Socrates daimon) he could not be trusted not to misuse his powers=
, even to the point of providing information beyond his own comprehension a=
s was the case again of Socrates.

"All initiation is really a test or trial, but the preparation for that tes=
t or trial is daily life....What we call Initiation is simply the showing b=
y the neophyte in the tests and there laid upon him, whether his daily life=
's training has been sufficiently strong to make him fit to hitch his chari=
ot to the stars."

"The tests are these: Can you face the denizens of other planes and prevail=
 with them in peace?  Do you know what that means?  Are you absolutely sure=
 of yourself?  The man who cannot even face himself and conquer himself whe=
n required on this familiar plane where he lives, how can be expect to face=
 with safety the habitants of other planes, not only the elementals - they =
are not by any means the worst - but the intelligent creatures, beings, liv=
ing on other planes?


"Now then, anyone who has mastered himself, perhaps not completely, but who=
 knows that if he sets his will to it he can control anything in his own ch=
aracter, and knows it by proving it, is ready to go through initiation.  Wh=
en this knowledge comes to him then he is given the chance.  So many people=
 seem to think that Initiations are privileges granted to people who preten=
d to live the holy life and that kind of thing, but I will tell you somethi=
ng more that I myself know because I have seen it in my fellow human beings=
: there is more chance for the man or the woman who has striven honestly an=
d has fallen and risen again, in other words for one who has eaten the brea=
d of bitterness, who has become softened and strengthened by it, that there=
 is for one who has never passed through the fire.  So compassionate and pi=
tiful is universal nature, that it is precisely those who stumble on the pa=
th who are often in the end the richer.  Holiness comes from the struggles =
with self
 fought and lost, and fought and lost, and fought and Won.  And then compas=
sion enters the heart, and pity, and understanding.  We become gentle with =
others. Wind of the Spirit, G de Purucker.

Cheers
Cass

carlosaveline cardoso aveline <carlosaveline@hotmail.com> wrote:=20
Cass,


Thanks.

Yes, HPB said Socrates was "not initiated" --  but not initiated in what?

It is clear: he was not initiated in the conventional, Western,  physical =
=20
plane Mysteries of his own time and society.   Physical level, conventional=
=20
initiation means affiliation and often dependence.

Julian, who WAS initiated in the Mysteries as HPB informs,  writes (in his=
=20
Oration VII)  that Socrates of Athens,  like Diogenes, the Cynic, DID NOT=20
NEED  to be initiated  because they both had "direct sources" so to say.

In saying this, Julian was only anticipating his own fate, in a way, as he=
=20
also died for "revealing too much", as HPB writes ( BCW, volume XIV).  She=
=20
compares Julian and Socrates with a favourable view of both of them.

Socrates was ABOVE the Mysteries of his time, then. His link was inner.

I should  bring more evidences, and references, about this issue, here.

Many theosophists use to get too  enthusiastic with Plato and there is, to=
=20
my view, a misunderstanding of HPB's real position with regard to Socrates,=
=20
as if she thought he was "beneath initiation".  She did not. We must not=20
idealize the Greek Mysteries too much. As a corporation, it had great=20
limitations, of which Socrates was free.

Philosophy, with its free thought, goes far beyond myths and mystery=20
corporations/organizations.
Yet as it explains myths and reveal them, it gets into dangerous waters for=
=20
ortodoxy.


So does Theosophy. HPB had much in common with Socrates, with Julian -- and=
=20
even something in common with Diogenes, the Cynic, too.  She, too, was=20
accused of "talking too much" -- ask Subba Row about that...


Regards,  Carlos.







>From: Cass Silva=20
>Reply-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
>To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: Theos-World THE ONLY REAL TEMPLE
>Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2006 19:31:05 -0800 (PST)
>
>Hello Carlos
>I read this a little differently in that HPB is suggesting that Socrates=20
>was not initiated, but new the path to initiation came by knowing thyself.=
=20=20
>Self, whether divine or human.  So perhaps she is suggesting that the firs=
t=20
>stage is to know our human self, in truth and without judgement before the=
=20
>heavenly man will manifest?
>Cass
>
>if otherwise, then, like Socrates repeating to himself, as well as to his
>fellow-men, the noble injuction, =E2=80=98O man, know thyself=E2=80=99=E2=
=80=99, he succeeded
>in
>recognizing his God within himself." (1)
>
>Cass
>
>
>
>carlosaveline cardoso aveline  wrote:
>
>oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
>
>THE ONLY REAL TEMPLE  -- WHERE IS IT?
>
>ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
>
>
>Dear Friends,
>
>
>Outer, physical  Temples can be seen, at best, as metaphors for,
>or projections of, the temple or divine presence in our own consciousness.
>
>Referring to the old Socrates of Athens, , H. P. Blavatsky wrote:
>
>
>=EF=BF=BDFrom the  days of the primitive man described by the first Vedic =
poet,=20
>down
>to our modern poet, there has not been a philosopher worthy of that name,
>who did not carry in the silent sanctuary of his heart the grand and
>mysterious truth. If initiated, he learnt it as a sacred science; if
>otherwise, then, like Socrates repeating to himself, as well as to his
>fellow-men, the noble injuction, =EF=BF=BDO man, know thyself=EF=BF=BD=EF=
=BF=BD, he succeeded=20
>in
>recognizing his God within himself." (1)
>
>The esoteric movement is only a stimulating and testing common ground for
>that inner recognition.
>
>Best regards,  Carlos Cardoso Aveline
>
>
>
>NOTE:
>(1) =EF=BF=BDIsis Unveiled=EF=BF=BD, by H. P. Blavatsky, Theosophical Univ=
ersity Press,
>Pasadena, California, USA, 1988, two volumes, see volume II, p. 318.
>Reproduced by H.P. Blavatsky in =EF=BF=BDCollected Writing=EF=BF=BD, TPH W=
heaton,=20
>volume
>XIV, 1985, 733 pp., see p. 48.
>
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