Theos-Talk Archives (April 2006 Message tt00033)

Cass,


Thanks.

Yes, HPB said Socrates was "not initiated" --  but not initiated in what?

It is clear: he was not initiated in the conventional, Western,  physical  
plane Mysteries of his own time and society.   Physical level, conventional 
initiation means affiliation and often dependence.

Julian, who WAS initiated in the Mysteries as HPB informs,  writes (in his 
Oration VII)  that Socrates of Athens,  like Diogenes, the Cynic, DID NOT 
NEED  to be initiated  because they both had "direct sources" so to say.

In saying this, Julian was only anticipating his own fate, in a way, as he 
also died for "revealing too much", as HPB writes ( BCW, volume XIV).  She 
compares Julian and Socrates with a favourable view of both of them.

Socrates was ABOVE the Mysteries of his time, then. His link was inner.

I should  bring more evidences, and references, about this issue, here.

Many theosophists use to get too  enthusiastic with Plato and there is, to 
my view, a misunderstanding of HPB's real position with regard to Socrates, 
as if she thought he was "beneath initiation".  She did not. We must not 
idealize the Greek Mysteries too much. As a corporation, it had great 
limitations, of which Socrates was free.

Philosophy, with its free thought, goes far beyond myths and mystery 
corporations/organizations.
Yet as it explains myths and reveal them, it gets into dangerous waters for 
ortodoxy.


So does Theosophy. HPB had much in common with Socrates, with Julian -- and 
even something in common with Diogenes, the Cynic, too.  She, too, was 
accused of "talking too much" -- ask Subba Row about that...


Regards,  Carlos.







> From: Cass Silva <silva_cass@yahoo.com>
> Reply-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: Theos-World THE ONLY REAL TEMPLE
> Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2006 19:31:05 -0800 (PST)
>
> Hello Carlos
> I read this a little differently in that HPB is suggesting that Socrates 
> was not initiated, but new the path to initiation came by knowing thyself.  
> Self, whether divine or human.  So perhaps she is suggesting that the first 
> stage is to know our human self, in truth and without judgement before the 
> heavenly man will manifest?
> Cass
>
> if otherwise, then, like Socrates repeating to himself, as well as to his
> fellow-men, the noble injuction, ‘O man, know thyself’’, he succeeded
> in
> recognizing his God within himself." (1)
>
> Cass
>
>
>
> carlosaveline cardoso aveline <carlosaveline@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
>
> THE ONLY REAL TEMPLE  -- WHERE IS IT?
>
> ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
>
>
> Dear Friends,
>
>
> Outer, physical  Temples can be seen, at best, as metaphors for,
> or projections of, the temple or divine presence in our own consciousness.
>
> Referring to the old Socrates of Athens, , H. P. Blavatsky wrote:
>
>
> �From the  days of the primitive man described by the first Vedic poet, 
> down
> to our modern poet, there has not been a philosopher worthy of that name,
> who did not carry in the silent sanctuary of his heart the grand and
> mysterious truth. If initiated, he learnt it as a sacred science; if
> otherwise, then, like Socrates repeating to himself, as well as to his
> fellow-men, the noble injuction, �O man, know thyself��, he succeeded 
> in
> recognizing his God within himself." (1)
>
> The esoteric movement is only a stimulating and testing common ground for
> that inner recognition.
>
> Best regards,  Carlos Cardoso Aveline
>
>
>
> NOTE:
> (1) �Isis Unveiled�, by H. P. Blavatsky, Theosophical University Press,
> Pasadena, California, USA, 1988, two volumes, see volume II, p. 318.
> Reproduced by H.P. Blavatsky in �Collected Writing�, TPH Wheaton, 
> volume
> XIV, 1985, 733 pp., see p. 48.
>
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