Theos-Talk Archives (March 2006 Message tt01649)

You wrote:

"Actually I attribute the failures of the Theosophical Society to 
the leadership. The Theosophical Society and its members were the 
victims.  IMO, its greatest success today has been their efforts to 
publish and keep in print the collected writings of Blavatsky.  They 
have an outstanding library at the National Headquarters.  They 
publish some important classics.  I like many of its members."

Okay, that's very nice.  Then how do you feel about the various 
class sessions with their respective speakers?  Do they stay true to 
the original spirit of the organization?  For example, I am 
attending a number of the directors' classes (Ethics of the Secret 
Doctrine; The Law of Cycles, etc.) at the Wheaton Headquarters, 
coupled with sporadic attendance when a new guest speaker is invited 
each week.

"Yes, non profits organizations, like any other effort requires 
money to operate.  And, I suspect that certain non profit 
organizations, like United Way, is primarily oriented to collecting 
and distributing money.  With its highly paid officers including its 
CEO which collects a multi-million dollar salary, I'm sure that 
there is a lot of politics."

Indeed.

"On the other hand, such places as the United Way have move far away 
from the original concept of non-profits, and are not necessarily 
representative.  I am president-founder of a non-profit educational 
organization.  The Board meetings typically last for 3 to 4 hours.  
The treasurer's report takes 5 to 10 minutes.  The rest of the time 
we talk about planning programs, classes, our journal etc.  Rather 
than talking about how to get more money, we talk about and plan 
services."

Wow, that sounds pretty industrious.  I'm glad that you have such a 
positive focus.  I was a corporate instructor myself for many years, 
although that was all strictly business, working for millionaires 
that I had never personally met.  I taught a couple hundred 
employees between two different companies, both on-site and in-
classroom, hiring half of the ones that I taught.  I taught package 
handlers at UPS, and inventory specialists at RGIS.  Two different 
companies.  What things do you teach for your non-profit educational 
organization that you run?

"No one on the Board, or connected in any way with the organization 
receives a salary.  In fact, Board members are required to donate a 
predetermined amount of their own money to the organization.  
However, volunteers are reimbursed for out of pocket expenses--but 
not for their time.  What I am saying is that is is quite possible 
for non profit organizations to be primarily focused on service--not 
getting money.  They do not have to be "money centered". We have 
proved that.  Ours are on a donation bases.  Some people pay and 
some don't"

That's very nice.  And I do believe that this is how most non-
profits start out in the beginning.  And some, like yours, can even 
extend this positive focus for several decades.  However, I suggest 
that size and time inevitably come into play with growing 
organizations.  As organizations grow larger over many extended 
decades, they become increasingly more rigid in their policies.  I 
call it the 'cycle of governments' for lack of a better term.  This 
is mostly size and time related.

For example, let's say that your organization grows in the next few 
years, to the point where you begin to require paid staffing.  
Hypothetically, you may even boost up to 100-1000 volunteers, whom 
you won't be able to directly manage without hiring 5-10 paid 
staff.  As you do this, you'll invariably need to extend a rigid 
ruleset concerning safety procedures, legal procedures and the 
like.  The reason that you'll begin enforcing a few strict rules 
here and there (even though remaining flexible on many, if not most) 
is because some volunteer(s) will eventually do something flagrant 
that counters the best interests of the organizational agenda. 

What I'm really trying to communicate is the concept that every 
national government, corporate business, educational system or 
religious church begins as somewhat of a rebel faction (whether 
bloody or polite) seeking independence from a cruel 'overlord' 
organization.  All organizations fall into this category, albeit 
intensity and degree vary.

Every independent entrepreneur is a dissatisfied rebel at heart 
(some bloody and some polite), who detests the way that things were 
done by the previous 'overlord'.  Therefore a new and better 
government system is built, due to failures of the previous.  Until, 
of course, with size and time, it too becomes increasingly 
political.  Some moreso and some less so.  Size and time are 
responsible for this, requiring more rigid rulesets.  The rulesets 
create red tape, and thus we have politics.  You must resist the 
windy elements themselves, for times always change.  The 'cycle of 
governments'.

"Have you studied scriptures of other religions and spiritualities?"

I have a number of religious books outside of Christianity.  In 
fact, one quite extraordinary work is "World Scripture: A 
Comparative Anthology of Sacred Texts" authored by the International 
Religious Foundation and published by Paragon House.  This 900 page 
volume topically categorizes excerpts from all prominent ancient 
religious texts from religions across the world, with no commentary 
attached.  It is a bible of bibles, so to speak.  Comprised of all 
primary world religions.  You may wish to glance at it, if you 
haven't encountered this treasure already.

Now do I actually have time and energy to read entire ancient texts 
beyond the bible?  No, I don't.  Does a corporate manager have time 
to become a doctor and a lawyer and a psychiatrist and an accountant 
simultaneously?  Does such constitute wisdom?  What I am relegated 
to do is specialize in one or two areas (the Bible in this case), 
and turn to outside teachers for the rest.

I have many precious books in my library, but I haven't actually 
read them all thoroughly.  So I acquire teachers along the road, 
here and there, to fill me in on what I've missed.  These teachers 
illumine me to small excerpts of their own fields of specialty.  The 
corporate manager hires the doctor, the lawyer, the psychiatrist and 
the accountant, thereby gaining additional, albeit miniscule, 
fragments of knowledge here and there.

"I got the idea from a lifetime of reading the scriptures, reading 
the works of theologians and of secular Biblical scholars, and doing 
my own research on the subject."

Hhmm, I come to different conclusions, but we've obviously used 
different sources.

"What parts do you find historical?  What parts do you 
find "mythical"?  What parts do you find evangelical?"

Here is the most basic breakdown, with minor deviations contained 
therein:

1. Genesis to Esther (Historical Old Testament)
2. Job to Malachi (Metaphorical Old Testament)
3. Matthew to Acts (Historical New Testament)
4. Romans to Revelation (Metaphorical New Testament)

The Bible is subdivided into these four basic classifications by the 
original canonizers, with minor exceptions contained in the 
subsections of each.

I would even assert that the book arrangements could be reordered as 
follows:

Book One: Historical (Genesis to Esther; Matthew to Acts) containing 
a chronology of historical events.  Often used for historical 
teaching formats.  Good for visual learners with emphasis on 
application versus interpretation.

Book Two: Metaphorical (Job to Malachi; Romans to Revelation) 
containing a series of prophecies, poems, teachings and metaphors.  
Often used for topical teaching formats.  Good for auditory learners 
with emphasis on interpretation versus application.

If we utterly eliminated the differentiation between the Old and New 
Testaments, we would instead have this format of a historical volume 
(Genesis to Esther and Matthew to Acts) and a metaphorical volume 
(Job to Malachi and Romans to Revelation).  The books were concisely 
arranged in this fashion by the canonizers of scripture.  The 
historical books are arranged according to strict sequential 
timelines, whereas the metaphorical books are arranged morese by 
size and prominency of author.

"By historical difficulties, I mean that they most probably never 
occurred."

Have you actually found counter-evidence to the biblical records, or 
have the biblical records simply not been affirmatively validated to 
you?

""Spiritual clairvoyance"  is direct spiritual perception that 
bypasses the mind and visionary images.  It come through a center of 
perception that does not involve the mind."

Hence spiritual clairvoyace is superior to the mere visions and 
dreams.  The dreamer is asleep and masked, operating via 
subconsciously-derived symbols.  But the spiritual clairvoyant is 
fully aware and awake, with all dream imageries having fully 
dissipated.  Dreams are merely a veil which serve to temporarily 
protect the ego consciousness from it's own disintegration incurred 
by spiritual enlightenment.

Numbers 12 
 6 He said, "Hear now My words: If there is a prophet among you, I, 
the LORD, shall make Myself known to him in a vision. I shall speak 
with him in a dream. 
 7 "Not so, with My servant Moses, He is faithful in all My 
household; 
 8 With him I speak mouth to mouth, Even openly, and not in dark 
sayings, And he beholds the form of the LORD. Why then were you not 
afraid To speak against My servant, against Moses?" 
 (NAS95)

Here we see a differentiation between slumbering dreamers and 
spiritually conscious revelators.

"Interesting idea. The traditions I follow warn about the snares of 
psychism.  But I also know the dangers from experience.  I used to 
work in an open setting psychiatric hospital where I  had the chance 
to observe and interact with lots of very psychic people.  Some were 
telepathic, some had visions, some had conversations with God etc.  
Since I also have some natural abilities, I could see a lot of 
things that were going on that the psychiatrists had no idea about."

I suggest that many people (perhaps 1 out of 10 in our US population 
as a very wild guess) have their psychic centers opened up either 
prematurely or too quickly, either through drug usage or traumatic 
life events, thereby rendering them mentally ill.  The subconscious 
psyche has many dark things contained within, which often go 
unattended and uncleansed.  The most severe instances of the 
subconscious psyche opening up too quickly result in mass murder 
cases and severe mental derangements.  However, the wise sages of 
antiquity take the slow road.

"Is this story, for you, historical, allegorical, metaphorical 
or...?"

All of the above.
 
"What do you mean by "materialistic pseudo-spirituality" and "lower 
psychic centers of our unconscious"?"

1. Materialistic pseudo-spirituality: a psuedo-spiritually which 
centers moreso around what the material five senses percieve, while 
operating in ignorance of the supernatural realms of spirits and 
ghosts.  Namely, the realm of classical psychology, which is often 
basely mistaken for spirituality.

2. Lower psychic centers of our subconscious: the approximated 90% 
of our brain which does not operate with conscious thought, emotion, 
volition and conscience.  We sleep eight hours per night and awake 
to a sixteen hour day.  But when we wake up in the morning, only 10% 
of our brain actually is conscious, and we remain in a 90% slumber.  
We walk about as mere sleepwalkers day to day throughout our daily 
routines.  Full brain consciousness enables the full gamut of 
psychic abilities.

Blessings

Vince

--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Jerry Hejka-Ekins <jjhe@...> 
wrote:
>
> Dear Vince,
> 
> >And aside from these failures which you attribute to the 
> >Theosophical Society, in what ways do you think they have still 
been 
> >subsequently successful today?
> >  
> >
> Actually I attribute the failures of the Theosophical Society to 
the 
> leadership. The Theosophical Society and its members were the 
victims.  
> IMO, its greatest success today has been their efforts to publish 
and 
> keep in print the collected writings of Blavatsky.  
> 
> >What things still appeal to you about the Theosophical Society 
today?
> >
> They have an outstanding library at the National Headquarters.  
They 
> publish some important classics.  I like many of its members.
> 
> >I believe that not-for-profit corporations are just as money-
> >centered as for-profit corporations.  They both require money to 
> >operate, and are permeated with organizational politics at their 
> >highest ranks.  They just obtain their money in different ways.
> >
> Yes, non profits organizations, like any other effort requires 
money to 
> operate.  And, I suspect that certain non profit organizations, 
like 
> United Way, is primarily oriented to collecting and distributing 
money.  
> With its highly paid officers including its CEO which collects a 
> multi-million dollar salary, I'm sure that there is a lot of 
politics.  
> On the other hand, such places as the United Way have move far 
away from 
> the original concept of non-profits, and are not necessarily 
> representative.  I am president-founder of a non-profit 
educational 
> organization.  The Board meetings typically last for 3 to 4 
hours.  The 
> treasurer's report takes 5 to 10 minutes.  The rest of the time we 
talk 
> about planning programs, classes, our journal etc.  Rather than 
talking 
> about how to get more money, we talk about and plan services.  No 
one on 
> the Board, or connected in any way with the organization receives 
a 
> salary.  In fact, Board members are required to donate a 
predetermined 
> amount of their own money to the organization.  However, 
volunteers are 
> reimbursed for out of pocket expenses--but not for their time.  
What I 
> am saying is that is is quite possible for non profit 
organizations to 
> be primarily focused on service--not getting money.  They do not 
have to 
> be "money centered". We have proved that. 
> 
> >I believe that religious, philosophical and educational 
> >organizations are first and foremost out to make money. 
> >
> Not ours.
> 
> >Their services are strictly delivered at a price.
> >
> Ours are on a donation bases.  Some people pay and some don't.
> 
> >They may meet spiritual 
> >and intellectual needs, but only for a monetary fee.  Money is 
> >central and donations are key.
> >
> Not in our case.  Service is key.
> 
> >I suggest that there is such a wealth in the Bible that we 
currently 
> >retain, that even if we lost another 50% of it today, we'd still 
> >retain more spiritual treasure within it than we could 
qualitatively 
> >ingest in a lifetime.
> >
> 
> Have you studied scriptures of other religions and spiritualities?
> 
> >I'm not sure where you get this idea.  I suggest that the gospels 
> >were very much intended as historical texts, even if 
> >evangelistically focused.  Luke attempts to focus on each detail 
for 
> >accuracy, for example.  Now one may say that the historical 
methods 
> >of recording and/or verifying information 2000 years ago was not 
as 
> >precise as it is today, but the gospels are historically-intended 
> >documents nonetheless, even while remaining evangelistic.
> >
> I got the idea from a lifetime of reading the scriptures, reading 
the 
> works of  theologians and of secular Biblical scholars, and doing 
my own 
> research on the subject.
> 
> >I suggest that the historicity of the gospels and the presence of 
> >Greek cultural overtones are not mutually exclusive.  The two can 
> >exist together.
> >  
> >
> What parts do you find historical?  What parts do you 
find "mythical"? 
> What parts do you find evangelical?
> 
>  
> 
> >These historical difficulties do not elimate the fact that the 
> >gospels are originally intended as historical documents.  Rather, 
> >you're just not satisfied with their degree of historical 
accuracy 
> >by today's standards.  Those are two very different scenarios.
> >  
> >
> By historical difficulties, I mean that they most probably never 
occurred.
> 
> >Yes, some of these practices were used by ancient Indians.  I'm 
not 
> >certain how you're using the term 'spiritual clairvoyance'
> >  
> >
> "Spiritual clairvoyance"  is direct spiritual perception that 
bypasses 
> the mind and visionary images.  It come through a center of 
perception 
> that does not involve the mind. 
> 
> >, but I 
> >nonetheless suggest that higher spirituality is not attained 
without 
> >first opening up the lower psychic realms for purposes of 
> >cleansing.  In this sense, one must pass through the hells (the 
> >darkness of the psychic subconscious) before entering the heavens 
> >(gaining spiritual enlightenment).
> >
> Interesting idea. The traditions I follow warn about the snares of 
> psychism.  But I also know the dangers from experience.  I used to 
work 
> in an open setting psychiatric hospital where I  had the chance to 
> observe and interact with lots of very psychic people.  Some were 
> telepathic, some had visions, some had conversations with God 
etc.   
> Since I also have some natural abilities, I could see a lot of 
things 
> that were going on that the psychiatrists had no idea about.
> 
> >This is very similar to the concept that Jesus himself descended 
> >into the hells and subsequently ascended into the heavens.  Or 
when 
> >he was tempted by the devil in the wilderness prior to his 
earthly 
> >ministry.
> >
> Is this story, for you, historical, allegorical, metaphorical 
or...?
> 
> 
> >If the lower psychic centers are not opened so that they can be 
> >cleansed, we will merely adopt a materialistic pseudo-
spirituality 
> >as a result, which is even more dangerous than opening up the 
lower 
> >psychic centers of our subconscious.
> >  
> >
> What do you mean by "materialistic pseudo-spirituality" and "lower 
> psychic centers of our unconscious"?
> 
> Best
> Jerry
>