From: "krsanna" <timestar@timestar.org>
Reply-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Theos-World Adyar's irrelevancy
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 13:34:16 -0000
Carlos -- It is true, as you say, ultimately, "there is no
real "separation" between Adyar and non-Adyar groups/institutions at
the inner level." This does not account for the demographics of
Theosophists when viewed as organizations.
A Young Theosophists is defined as someone under the age of 35. I'd
like to hear back from others as to the percentage of Young
Theosophists in their organizations. One of our members was 30 when
we started our study group in 2004, and was shocked to get an
invitation to join the Young Theosophists.
"These guys think I'm young?" A Theosophist born in 1976 is now 30
years old and grew up with computer games, "Star Wars," and UFO
reports on television. Experienced (matured) Theosophists are a
different culture than the "experienced" or mature Theosophists over
the age of 65.
While the mature Theosophists are one on the inner level with the
younger generation, the older ones will disappear a lot sooner and
leave the existing Young Theosophists -- however few there are -- to
carry on the work. My Young Theosophist in Missoula suggested to
our study group that we create a web site that will speak in the
terms of people his age.
He loves HPB too, but he wants to animate the images she describes
in the Proem and Stanzas for a web site we are making. He grew up
with the internet and regularly participates in "nerd fests" where
his friends get together and play computer games. He lives in
culturally different terms than many older Theosophists.
The internet by itself has done much to make Adyar irrelevant. I'm
more interested in the terms of the Young Theosophists that I am in
trying to rescue the elder generation. The older generation will
disappear and return to seek truth in new cultural terms.
The National Lodge at Wheaton started its FIRST internet list about
2 years ago with the question, "Should Christianity be saved?" It
was based on an article explaining that many people, including
merchants, are shying away from the word, "Christmas," and, instead,
tend to use the term "Holiday."
This is a sign of changing times that many eagerly anticipate. It
is for this reason that I say Adyar is irrelevant. The market for
what Adyar's offering is disappearing. The world has changed and
many (older) Theosophists are not changing rapidly enough to keep
pace.
A new generation will take the helm, possibly in an internet
environment, and change the way Theosophy is addressed in the
culture. I'm looking forward to it. Animations of the Proem will
be fun.
Best regards,
Krsanna
theosophists in general and humanity, too. The Pasadena Society,
the
> Edmonton Theos. Society, the ULT, Adyar TS, other smaller groups,
all are
> relevant and each can make a difference.
--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "carlosaveline cardoso aveline"
<carlosaveline@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> Krsanna,
>
> 1) Adyar may be irrelevant from one viewpoint, but perhaps more
than 80
> percent of theosophists world wide belong to it and asre more or
less
> trapped. "Souls are at stake", as one Master wrote in a Letter.
Souls, in a
> way, are far from irrelevant.
>
> 2) The non-Adyar groups and institutions are far from being
> above-imperfections, and many of the Adyar mistakes can be found
in
> non-Adyar groups, even if a smaller degree.
>
> 3) This happens because there is no real "separation" betwwen
Adyar and
> non-Adyar groups/institutions at the inner level --- we are all in
the same
> boat, theosophists in general and humanity, too. The Pasadena
Society, the
> Edmonton Theos. Society, the ULT, Adyar TS, other smaller groups,
all are
> relevant and each can make a difference. I hope you agree with
that.
> Universal Brotherhood is the link between us and the Adyar TS. If
we are
> solidary with the Tacoma TS, that is because TSA in relevant. Each
Lodge
> counts. Each person, each soul, each Higher Manas is relevant, in
a way,
> which does not mean you are "wrong" in what you wrote -- I am just
bringing
> a complementary view of things.
>
> 4) Can you quote from the Bowen Notes on the brain?
>
>
> Best regards, Carlos.
>
>
>
>
> >From: "krsanna" <timestar@...>
> >Reply-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> >To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> >Subject: Theos-World Re: To Krsanna: On Seeking Truth
> >Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 00:43:48 -0000
> >
> >Carlos -- A number of HPB's comments -- and the Bowen Notes --
> >regarding the brain are consistent with the research on the brain
> >that's been done only in recent decades. A very different model
of
> >the brain was in place in the 19th century. I wrote about a
> >fantastic book by UCLA research psychiatrist, Jeffrey Schwartz,
> >entitled, "The Mind & The Brain" in the last few weeks. Schwartz
> >has applied Buddhist techniques to research that hadn't even
started
> >until the 1960's and gets good results.
> >
> >Several things I've learned about optimum use of the body coincide
> >very well with HPB's knowledge, such as her discussion of the
> >brain. The "Bowen Notes" mention that "every conscious mental
> >picture formed means change and destruction of the atoms of the
> >brain" is a match with recent research. This principle is now
used
> >in rehabilitation for stroke victims.
> >
> >I do not assume that everything coming from Adyar is false; more
> >correctly, Adyar is increasing irrelevant. Adyar hitched its
wagon
> >to a paternalistic 19th century mindset that elected to undermine
> >HPB for the sake of propriety. The world has outgrown Adyar and
> >what's left of greatest value is HPB's work.
> >
> >Krsanna
> >
> >
> >
> >--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "carlosaveline cardoso aveline"
> ><carlosaveline@> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > Dear Krsanna,
> > >
> > >
> > > Thanks a lot.
> > >
> > > 1) Most of HPB's Esoteric Teachings, that is, her teachings to
the
> >Esoteric
> > > School, have been published already by Boris de Zirkoff in the
> >volume XII of
> > > her "Collected Writings".
> > >
> > > Before that, they had been published with some small changes in
> >the Annie
> > > Besant's version of the "Secrec Doctrine", by 1897.
> > >
> > > (For that, Besant broke her own personal vows of secrecy!!!)
> > >
> > > Since then, Adyar ES uses much more CWL's, Annie Besant's and
C.
> > > JInarajadasa's texts then texts by HPB -- its founder!
> > >
> > > 2) HPB's oral teachings to the very Inner Group of the Esoteric
> >School have
> > > also been published, by "Point Loma Publications", San Dioego,
CA,
> >1985.
> > > First edition, 1985, better than the second one. (Title: "The
> >Inner Group
> > > Teachings".)
> > >
> > > 3) We are dealing with human beings. Perhaps the same persons
who
> >seem to
> > > doubt the authenticity of the Bowen Notes are among the brave
> >souls who
> > > preserved HPB's main teachings up to our time. Perhaps they are
> >right in
> > > doubting it. If not, we should take into consideration that
while
> >working
> > > under consistent currents of attack and slander, many people
will
> >develop
> > > psychological defense-mechanisms. One of such possible
defense-
> >mechanisms
> > > may be the strong feeling that "everything coming from Adyar
is,
> >in
> > > principle, FALSE". There are delicate magnetic issue related
to
> >this, too.
> > > Because "everything coming from Adyar has indeed something of
> >Adyar's
> > > magnetism" -- as I believe.
> > >
> > > These points are very brief --- I apologize for the
telegraphic
> >style...
> > >
> > > But-- may the dialogue go on!
> > >
> > > (My main point as to the Bowen Notes is that their content is
> >consistent
> > > with HPB's teachings. The same as to the 1900 Letter -- but I
only
> >say that
> > > because I count on the generosity of those brave and loyal
souls
> >who may
> > > disagree from my view. I would never "fight" over this. Only -
-
> >sincere and
> > > honest diversity of views enriches the movement... and it
> >exercises our
> > > mutual tolerance and modesty. We are all but students in their
> >search, and
> > > helping each other with their views!)
> > >
> > > Best regards, Carlos.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >From: "krsanna" <timestar@>
> > > >Reply-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> > > >To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> > > >Subject: Theos-World Re: WHEN TRUTH IS A LIE
> > > >Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 14:13:12 -0000
> > > >
> > > >It is unfortunate for modern students that HPB did not reveal
> > > >informatmion given to her Esoteric Section, on whom she
relied to
> > > >guide the TS, to Theosophists at large. Bowen was a member
of the
> > > >Esoteric Section and was with HPB during the last weeks of her
> >life.
> > > >
> > > >How would Theosophists know what HPB was teaching the Esoteric
> > > >Section, since their literature was not made public? Bowen
> > > >mentioned HPB's sense of urgency in teaching the Esoteric
Section
> >in
> > > >her last weeks, and a sense of urgency is conveyed in the
> > > >letter, "Why I Do Not Return To India."
> > > >
> > > >After sending the letter to India to be distributed among
> > > >Indians, "for some reason," it was not distributed by Olcott
and
> > > >other leaders of the Indian Section. This is certainly a
measure
> >of
> > > >the opposition in India to Theosophy as HPB taught it.
Bowen, as
> >a
> > > >member of the Esoteric Section with Blavatsky in the last
weeks of
> > > >her life, was in a better position to know what she taught the
> > > >Esoteric Section that was not available to other Theosophists.
> > > >
> > > >Carlos, who are these people that are willing to accept as
fact
> >the
> > > >whispers of a cabal who opposed HPB and deny the testimony of
> > > >trusted students who stayed with her in the Esoteric Section
until
> > > >the end? What was the motive of those in India that failed to
> > > >distribute her letter to Theosophists in India?
> > > >
> > > >The "take-over" of Blavatsky's Theosophical Society in India
was
> >all
> > > >but complete one year before her death. The persons present
> > > >throughout the dismissal of Blavatsky's importance to
Theosophy
> >were
> > > >Olcott and Besant.
> > > >
> > > >Olcott is the overlooked figure that was continuously
involved in
> > > >efforts to undermine HPB's authority, working as he did as a
jolly
> > > >good fellow to keep the opposition against HPB off his own
back.
> > > >Olcott worked to protect his own rear. The success of his
> > > >socialable betrayal is seen today in the organizations he left
> > > >behind, which includes the American Section created after
HPB's
> > > >death.
> > > >
> > > >Best regards,
> > > >Krsanna
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "carlosaveline cardoso
aveline"
> > > ><carlosaveline@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Dear Krsanna,
> > > > >
> > > > > I also have a general, unfortunately vague recollection
that
> >there
> > > >are
> > > > > dedicated HPB students who doubt not only the authenticity
of
> >the
> > > >Bowen
> > > > > Notes, but also the authenticity of her Diagram of
Meditation.
> > > > >
> > > > > Yet this is not a big deal. Examining both texts we will
see
> >both
> > > >are
> > > > > consistent with H.P.B.'s writings.
> > > > >
> > > > > The Bowen Notes but stress and underline some basic points
she
> >had
> > > >made in
> > > > > several places, the Three Fundamental Propositions above
all.
> > > > >
> > > > > I would say the same as to the 1900 Letter, which is rather
> > > >similar to the
> > > > > so-called and fundamental "Letter from the Maha-Chohan"
(in
> >fact
> > > >it is but
> > > > > a report on the Maha-Chohan's view of the TS).
> > > > >
> > > > > And the 1900 Letter also anticipates all the mistakes A.
Besant
> > > >would do in
> > > > > the following 33 years: that why its main sentences were
kept
> > > >hidden and
> > > > > censored by A. Besant, C. Jinarajadasa and their
successors.
> > > > >
> > > > > I guess the tendency to reject there three documents may be
> > > >associated to a
> > > > > feeling that "everything which comes from Adyar is, in
> >principle,
> > > >false".
> > > > > There are strong reasons for such a feeling, of course,
but
> > > >whenever
> > > > > possible things should be examined case-by-case and
CONTENTS of
> > > >documents
> > > > > should be evaluated to see if they are consistent or not
with
> >the
> > > > > HPB/Masters teaching.
> > > > >
> > > > > I am not saying that the origin these documents is
> >authentic; I
> > > >am saying
> > > > > that their content is consistent with their being possibly
> > > >authentic. And
> > > > > the content, and the usefulness of things, is often more
> > > >important than
> > > > > their outward form or origin.
> > > > >
> > > > > Best regards, Carlos.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >From: "krsanna" <timestar@>
> > > > > >Reply-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > >To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > >Subject: Theos-World Re: WHEN TRUTH IS A LIE
> > > > > >Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 05:16:20 -0000
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Bart -- I'm surprised that you would settle for casting
doubt
> >but
> > > > > >not proving. Let me know when you find something
definitive.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Best regards,
> > > > > >Krsanna
> > > > > >
> > > > > >--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Bart Lidofsky <bartl@>
> >wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Ah! I found what I was looking for. It was more
> >casting
> > > > > >doubt than
> > > > > > > proving false, but here's an indirect ref:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > http://www.theos-
> >talk.com/archives/200306/tt00137.html
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Bart Lidofsky wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > You are right; I was hoping that somebody
here might
> > > >know
> > > > > >more about
> > > > > > > > it. I will find out for sure tomorrow, however.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Bart
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > krsanna wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >>Bart -- Can you provide an authority for that
> >citation. "I
> > > > > >heard...
> > > > > > > >>[somewhere, sometimes]" doesn't do you justice. I'm
> >sure you
> > > > > >can
> > > > > > > >>come up with something better than that.
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>Best regards,
> > > > > > > >>Krsanna
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Bart Lidofsky
<bartl@>
> > > >wrote:
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>>krsanna wrote:
> > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > >>>>Cass -- I posted the "Bowen Notes" taken from
meetings
> >with
> > > > > >HPB
> > > > > > > >>>>shortly before her death. Best regards, Krsanna
> > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > >>> I thought I heard something about the Bowen
Notes
> > > >being
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>fraudulent; I
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>>will have to check up on this.
> > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > >>> Bart
> > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> >_________________________________________________________________
> > > > > Copa 2006: Já está na hora de saber o que é
> >`Freundschaftsspiel'
> > > >Clique
> > > > > aqui! http://copa.br.msn.com/extra/dicionario/
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
_________________________________________________________________
> > > Com o MSN Spaces você divide seu blog, suas fotos, sua lista de
> >música e
> > > muito mais com seus amigos! Crie já o seu espaço online e com
seus
> >amigos! E
> > > só entra no http://spaces.msn.com/
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> _________________________________________________________________
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