Theos-Talk Archives (March 2006 Message tt00813)

Dear Cass,

If someone ask you "How are you", and you answer, "Fine, thanks", even if 
you have a bad cold and are in a bad mood, that is a lie.

This is no the point. We are not talking about innocent lies.

The point is: "Was HPB a legitimate person? Was she capable of fraud? Was 
she a truthful person, an honest woman?"

Paul Johnson, who is not a theosophist, but a member of some Church (and HPB 
 fought most Churches), says HPB was a liar, and presents no proofs.

His sources are the Coulombs and Soloviof, that is, he has no sources at 
all, so much so that he doesn't even makes his points clear and disguises 
his own positions.

When asked to clarify, he goes away making believe he feels offended.  He is 
in line with John Algeo, Katinka Hesserlink, Daniel Caldwell, and other.

You may know that slandering famous people in books is a pathway to some 
kind of notoriety.
V. Soloviof had his "passaport to fame" speaking evil of HPB. Judas is 
talked about even today.

Get my point? And these "Historians" ignore the SPR self-criticism of 1986!

Best regards,  Carlos.








> From: Cass Silva <silva_cass@yahoo.com>
> Reply-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: Theos-World TO CASS ON DEFENDING HPB'S WORK
> Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 19:19:22 -0800 (PST)
>
> Hello Carlos
> My point was that we must not hold on to our "ideas" as being "truths".  
> What PJ wrote about HPB is only his ideas on what he believes to be the 
> truth, and, I am sure that there is a certain truthful aspect within his 
> ideas.  However, it is like looking at a small piece of cloth and imagining 
> it is the quilt.
>
> Your ideas are supporting your truths in relation to the claim that HPB was 
> not a liar, even though she and the masters have stated that under certain 
> circumstances a lie will be used to protect others.  However, I would like 
> to add that these  lies cannot be found in the actual teachings, be that 
> exoteric or esoteric.
>
>  I have found nothing stating that the integrity of either HPB or the 
> Masters needs be defended as a moral or virtuous act of any theosophist, 
> although I admire your loyalty.  I do admit that when anyone slanders HPB, 
> the hairs on the back of my neck stiffen, however, everyone is free to 
> believe whatever they so chose to believe.  Flapdoodle comes to mind!
>
> Cheers
> Cass
>
>
> carlosaveline cardoso aveline <carlosaveline@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Cass,
>
> I don't disagree but I couldn't understand what exactly your point is,
> below.
>
> My reason for defending what I consider to be the truth about HPB's work is
> that her  work is useful to, and BADLY NEEDED BY,  humanity right now.
>
> There is no other practical reason for that --  of which I can remember
> right now.
>
> And I am open to examine new evidences, as I am also examining the false
> ideas and sometimes the utter lies about HPB's work.
>
> Best regards,   Carlos.
>
> >From: Cass Silva
> >Reply-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> >To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> >Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: WHEN TRUTH IS A LIE
> >Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 16:05:52 -0800 (PST)
> >
> >Carlos, Vladmimir
> >Didn't someone post an article by HPB on the mind which stated that we 
> may
> >believe at a particular point in time that our ideas are "truths" but in
> >fact as we are continually learning our ideas are continually changing, 
> and
> >those once thought of truths in fact become untruths in hindsight.  The
> >problem arises when we embrace a particular idea as the absolute truth 
> and
> >refuse to let go of the idea that once what I thought was the truth was 
> but
> >a partial glimmer of absolute truth.
> >
> >My solution for this is to take the attitude that all truths are 
> "definite
> >maybe's" until I am proved ignorant in abscentia.
> >
> >Although Steve's opinion is that Devachan is a subjective existence, 
> which
> >I acknowledge, I am of the opinion that any idea we take with us will be
> >mulled over for centuries, and as there are masters incarnate there are
> >masters disincarnate who are available in devachan to direct and assist 
> us.
> >  I am quite certain that a disincarnate master, a plato, etc would not
> >disturb anyone who is mulling over whether HPB was a charletan or not!
> >
> >Cass
> >
> >carlosaveline cardoso aveline  wrote:
> >
> >Vladimir,
> >
> >Thanks (see below).
> >
> >I try not to be merciless with people.
> >
> >But I believe in an open and frank debate.
> >
> >One of the lessons we have to learn-and-teach to each other  in the
> >theosophical movement is that
> >we are NOT our ideas.  It is a lesson of detachment, or vairagya.  This 
> is
> >a
> >quality of fundamental importance for truth-seekers.
> >
> >People who think they are their ideas will get "personally offended "
> >whenever  their ideas are
> >questioned, or when they are shown to be false.
> >
> >Now, is this "scholarly"?
> >
> >Best regards, Carlos.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >From: Vladimir
> > >Reply-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> > >To: carlosaveline cardoso aveline
> > >Subject: Re: Theos-World Why Does Paul Unsubscribe?
> > >Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 22:34:02 +0300
> > >
> > >Monday, March 13, 2006, 9:39:16 PM, carlosaveline wrote:
> > >
> > > > Once  confronted  with  his  own  words,  and  with  the  completely
> > > > groundless  condition  of  his  "veiled"  accusations  against  HPB,
> > > > instead  of  facing  the  facts,  Paul  Johnson  tries  to adopt the
> > > > position  of  a  poor  defenceless  victim -- and gets away from the
> > > > debate.
> > >
> > >Oh,  c'mon,  have  mercy  on your brother, lest he deserts you forever
> > >leaving  us  wandering  about  in  woe  and  despair  longing  for his
> > >enlightening and mind-widening maybes and whatifs.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >_________________________________________________________________
> >Com o MSN Spaces voc� divide seu blog, suas fotos, sua lista de 
> m�sica
> >e
> >muito mais com seus amigos! Crie j� o seu espa�o online e com seus
> >amigos! E
> >s� entra no   http://spaces.msn.com/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >---------------------------------
> >Yahoo! Mail
> >Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail  makes sharing a breeze.
> >
> >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Facilite sua vida: Use o Windows Desktop Search e encontre qualquer arquivo
> ou e-mail em seu PC. Acesse:  http://desktop.msn.com.br
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
_________________________________________________________________
Ganhe tempo encontrando o arquivo ou e-mail que você precisa com Windows 
Desktop Search. Instale agora em  http://desktop.msn.com.br