From: "krsanna" <timestar@timestar.org>
Reply-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Theos-World Thank you - A sense of The Masters Revealed
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 13:10:38 -0000
Now I understand the protest against TMR. Thank you, Bruce. The
letter is anticlimaxtic after the spitting and shouting done over
it.
Verifying a letter of that nature should be the first step before
using it, as well as comparing it to other correspondence of the
same period. Similar situations with other people also might be
compared with it. Uri Geller is a contemporary example.
The letter doesn't change my opinion about HPB in any way. The
Mahatmas asked people to assist their nation on more than one
occasion. That kind of blew my mind at first, but it makes sense
that nations are a primary means of social organization. I believe
that national karma is easily visible, and HPB predicted the karmic
situation that would lead to World War I that, in turn, gave rise to
World War II then the Cold War. HPB lived in the 19th century, an
era that was very different in many ways than the 21st century.
We can't erase the lines of HPB's life to make it exemplary in
contemporary terms a hundred years after the fact. The facts of her
life will be given a different perspective in the 22nd century, as
people in that era look back on the 19th century.
I think Jerry had the right idea, that the way to deal with
objections to TMR is to produce a work that deals with the
questionable issues with more research.
HPB's life was one of dynamic change, and the 1872 letter adds to my
interest in her. I'd like to see a well reasoned response to TMR,
instead of a kick fight. Like it or not, people believe what they
are capable of understanding and, in most cases, what they want to
believe.
Krsanna
--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Robert Bruce MacDonald"
<robert.b.macdonald@...> wrote:
>
> Some people have been looking for a sense of what the TMR is all
about and
> why it may be objectionable. To give people an idea, the book is
divided
> into three parts, Part 1: Adepts, Part 2: Mahatmas, and Part 3:
Secret
> Messages. Part 1 deals with HPB's early years and the various
people that
> she might somehow be connected to and how these might be
inspirations for
> her later work. Part 2 deals with individuals that might be the
prototypes
> of the various Mahatmas that HPB wrote about. Part 3 deals with
all sorts
> of ugliness and could best be described as the political glue that
holds the
> rest of the book together.
>
> In Parts 1 and 2, the book utilizes quotes from the Coulombs, the
brothers
> Hare ("Who Wrote the Mahatma Letters" - read about them
in "Defence of
> Madame Blavatsky" by Beatrice Hastings,
> http://www.theosophycanada.com/ct_file/DefenceHPB.pdf), the
Coulombs sourced
> from "The Occult World of Madame Blavatsky" (demonstrates why this
volume
> can be dangerous), Olcott's "Old Diary Leaves", and Blavatsky's
fictional
> "Caves and Jungles". These, in addition to letters, etc. are used
to drive
> the arguments and connections in the book. Clearly some of these
sources
> are dubious at best, other sources are those of outright liars.
Although
> the contents of the sources themselves are not usually
controversial, their
> origin makes them questionable all the same.
>
> The problem with trying to get into somebody's head by looking at
the people
> that they may have crossed paths with is that you never know what
type of
> lessons your subject is deriving from these encounters. What TMR
focuses on
> in its many short biographies is the political motivations and
relationships
> of these people in addition to whatever occult sources of
knowledge they may
> have access to. You come away from the first two chapters with a
strange
> mix of politics and the occult. The problem with these two
endeavors, as
> any occultist will tell you, is that they do not mix. Politics is
the art
> of influencing others to help achieve worldly ends; the occult
serves an
> entirely different mistress - it is the art of encouraging people
to think
> for themselves. The only way the two can mix would be if HPB was
a
> book-learned occultist without possession of the Heart Doctrine.
In this
> scenario, HPB would be a great intellect who provided the world
with a
> remarkable body of literature. She might properly be called one
of the true
> greats. Great what? Great scholars. HPB has been transformed
from an
> occultist into a scholar. Perhaps this is high praise coming from
the pen
> of a scholar.
>
> To lend credence to this picture, TMR begins Part 3 as follows:
>
> IN 1993, SEVERAL DOCUMENTARY discoveries shed new light on
HPB's
> political involvements. Maria Carlson's No Religion Higher Than
Truth, a
> history of the Theosophical movement in Russia, reprints portions
of a
> letter Blavatsky wrote on 26 December 1872, while in Odessa.
Addressed to
> the Director of the Third Section, it volunteers her services as a
secret
> agent:
>
> "During these twenty years I have become well acquainted with all
of Western
> Europe. I zealously followed current politics not with any goal in
mind, but
> because of an innate passion; in order better to follow events and
to divine
> them in advance, I always had the habit of entering into the
smallest
> details of any affair, for which reason I strove to acquaint
myself with all
> the leading personalities, politicians of various nations, both of
the
> government factions and of the far Left....
>
> As a Spiritualist, I have a reputation in many places as a
powerful medium.
> Hundreds of people undoubtedly believed and will believe in
spirits. But I,
> writing this letter with the aim of offering my services to Your
Excellency
> and to my native land, am obligated to tell you the entire truth
without
> concealment. And thus I must confess that three-quarters of the
time the
> spirits spoke and answered in my words and out of my
considerations, for the
> success of my own plans. Rarely, very rarely, did I fail, by means
of this
> little trap, to discover people's hopes, plans and secrets.... I
have played
> every role, I am able to represent myself as any person you may
wish." (p.
> 216)
>
> Were the Theosophical world to take note of this discovery in the
Central
> State Archives of the October Revolution in Moscow, it would be
seen as a
> bombshell exploding the hagiographic interpretation of the
founder's early
> life. But it is likely to pass unnoticed. Her description in this
letter of
> her activities in the 1850s and 1860s corresponds accurately to
the portrait
> that has emerged in the present investigation. Quite striking,
however, is
> her apparent willingness to violate the trust of the same men she
was later
> to mythologize as Masters. Nevertheless, according to Carlson, the
Russian
> government rejected her offer, and no evidence has been found to
confirm
> that she ever became a secret agent for her native country. She
did,
> however, become a secret informant of the
> British government, but not until fifteen years after her offer to
St.
> Petersburg was rejected.
>
> This ends the quote that begins Part 3.
>
> The rest of Part 3 deals with suspicions by the British concerning
HPB's
> possible involvement as a Russian Spy, her unfortunate involvement
in an
> effort to stop an Indian uprising that could only have resulted in
the death
> of many of India's poor turned to desperation, Hume's involvement
in the
> whole mess, and hearsay nonsense surrounding what is called "An
Occult
> Imprisonment".
>
> This gives the people who have not read the book a sense of what
it is
> about. The TMR is basically a house of cards where if the 1872
Spy letter
> is removed, the whole thing collapses. The Spy letter helps to
establish a
> state of mind for HPB just prior for her leaving to America and
establishing
> the Theosophical Society. At one point the book uses the Spy
Letter to
> blunt or dismiss HPB's contempt for the whole field of politics.
TMR quotes
> from "The Letters of HPB to AP Sinnett", Letter LXXXVIII, where
HPB laments
> at being drawn into the political world due to the above mentioned
plot.
> From TMR we then read the glib comment: "This Letter suggest HPB's
ethics
> and sense of responsibility had evolved considerably since her
1872 offer to
> the Third Section."
>
> If we are to speak of responsibility, before using the 1872 letter
to club
> HPB over the head with, perhaps it would have been responsible to
make some
> effort towards its verification. To my knowledge there has been
no effort
> to verify this letter before or since. How can you then in good
conscience
> write a book around it, especially when so much of the book is put
together
> with thinly supported accounts? But then if one was to try and
verify the
> letter and fail, that would sure put the breaks on a
sensationalistic book!
> Perhaps it was best to leave well enough alone.
>
> I don't think we need professors to tell us whether this book has
merit or
> not. It seems that we can decide that perfectly well on our own.
>
> Sincerely,
> Bruce
>
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