Theos-Talk Archives (August 2005 Message tt00205)

Dear Frank, Daniel, Pedro et al,

As for GdeP's teaching on the seven fold constitution, it does not 
contradict HPB or the Mahatma letters in any way that I have detected. 
Rather, I found it to integrate together what was written in these 
sources into a rather clear explanation. 
As for divine souls: GdeP of course recognized sexual differences in the 
physical body and the linga sharira, but the higher principles do not 
have sexual attributes and, they are part of all of our constitutions. 
Also, the idea of male and female divine souls is not a part of GdeP's 
teachings, as far as I know. He also does not endorse the notion of 
"soul mates" that we find in new age philosophy. 
As for whether or not GdeP specifically said that Grace should not be 
Leader: I have not heard this. However, I do have some documents here 
that indicate to my mind, that GdeP did not expect any successor to come 
to take his place--whether that be Grace, or anyone else. On the other 
hand, as far as I know, Grace never demanded that anyone accept her as 
"Leader," in the sense that KT used it, as condition of membership. She 
never demanded it of me or my wife. Under Grace, things at Pasadena 
changed dramatically. 
As for the homosexuality issue: I have never seen any text where GdeP 
condemns it. Grace Knoche, Kirby Van Mater, Emmett Small, Boris 
DeZirkoff, and Gordon Plummer were all GdeP's students, and none of them 
ever said anything negative about homosexuality in my presence, or on 
any recorded talks that I have heard. Lina Psaltis, who was Boris' 
student, had her own study group which I was privileged to have been a 
part of for eighteen years. One member of this study group was 
homosexual. Everyone was aware of it. Yet neither Lina or anyone else in 
that group considered him less worthy in any way. 
As for Grace's part in the 1951 event: It is true that there were deep 
wounds, mistakes were made, and that the people involved, on both sides 
of the question, had to live with those wounds and those mistakes. 
However, I must say this: I had a chance to become very close to Emmett 
over the course of the last twenty years of his life. From that 
experience, I can say this with absolute certainty: The one thing that 
Emmett wanted to see was for the wrongs to be resolved, the wounds to be 
healed, and for the Theosophical Movement to once again become a unified 
force for the betterment of humanity. To get a feel for Emmett's 
attitudes on this, you might look through the issues of the Eclectic 
Theosophist from 1984s through the end where he worked so hard to 
promote the Theosophical Networking movement. An idea that G.de P. also 
tried to promote in 1930. 
Best Wishes,
Jerry





Frank Reitemeyer wrote:

> Daniel, Pedro, Jerry et al, at present I am occupied and for a longer period 
> with other duties, so I'll have not enough time to make a search.
> I would be glad if Jerry - or any other on this list - would provide us with 
> an exact quote of GdeP's words on leadership of women in the TM.
>
> I think it was in one of his circulars, but I can err as it is over ten 
> years back when I read it.
> I associate it with GdeP's condemnation of homosexuality. It may be the same 
> text.
> We discussed the women and homosexuality question and GdeP's views on it in 
> a local lodge, so I am quite sure this texts exists.
> I think someone once said that widespread of this more esoteric text is not 
> wished, because of the contrary Zeitgeist.
> GdeP said that his hint - not to make a woman a leader as a general rule - 
> must be followed for some centuries to follow, because of the present 
> conditions of the astral world.
> Obviously, women are closer to the astral world than men.
>
> But I think, in the curse of time, there may be many serious theosophical 
> students out there, which would like to study GdeP's hints.
> When we discussed it, others shared their memories about the words of Elsie 
> Benjamin, who in the 1980's was sometimes in Berlin.
> She was the private secretary to GdeP and told many interesting details. She 
> reported, too, his views on women and that GdeP did not want that Grace F. 
> Knoche ever gets a leading post.
> To prevent this he even once used occult power. The irony of history is that 
> she was instrumental in the 1946 conspiracy against GdeP's closest chelas 
> and became President of a "Theosophical Society" in the 1970's, of which W. 
> Emmett Small wrote in sharp words.
>
> Contrary to Danil (or others) I see NO CONTRADICTION between the views I 
> impute to GdeP and the views of KH.
> I am rather really shocked that one can see such a contradiction. I had to 
> exert myself much to understand what you, Daniel, mean by this alleged 
> contradiction.
> But now I have it, but it is a riddle to me.
> Frank
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Daniel H. Caldwell" <danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com>
> To: <theos-talk@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Sunday, August 21, 2005 6:21 PM
> Subject: Theos-World To Jerry HE: Does GdP actually teach this view given by 
> Frank?
>
>
> To Jerry HE:
>
> Although I have read some of GdP's books, I am
> not a close student of ALL or even most of his writings.
>
> Can you tell us from your own study of GdP if he
> actually teaches this view as given by Frank?
>
> For background, see:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theos-talk/message/28014
>
> Daniel
> http://hpb.cc
>
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