Theos-Talk Archives (May 2005 Message tt00721)

Hello Erica,
I cant help but feel that there is a bit of a blind spot here on the 
issue of valid criticism.

Would you agree that if certain verifiable information comes to 
light that calls into question the veracity of a prominent writers 
information then the society is morally and duty bound to bring this 
to the members attention even if it has repercussions for the 
society?

To do this would be noble action not one of shame.

Dr Tillett has brought very relevant and important facts to bear on 
the life of Bishop Leadbeater, facts that have important 
implications for those who read his books.

As I see it lack of critical comment is not necessarily a sign of 
virtue it can actually be a simple symptom of co dependence and a 
dis functional aversion to valid and needed rational debate.

In families this type of aversion can lead to extremely 
disempowering and destructive behaviour as any councillor will tell 
you.

A victim of sexual abuse by a family member for example may be told 
not to say anything as they will cause friction and "disharmony" in 
the family.
It can lead to a conspiracy of silence and allow the most outrageous 
behaviour to go unchallenged and spread greater disharmony.
(see M Scott Peck's book : People of the lie)

This can lead to a deadening of conscience and in theosophical terms 
mean blocking the impulses from the higher ethical and truthful 
energies of Buddhi.
Rather than warm fuzzies the higher Self impulses can cause great 
upset and turmoil for the personality.

Remember the motto of the society is "there is no Religion higher 
than Truth".
This is a very high demand and all of us fall short of it.
However I do feel we need to try and promote it as best we can.
You do seem like a person who is genuinely looking to promote what 
is right and true.

It is my offering here that the above points can go by unchecked 
sometimes and am interested in your comments and point of view.
Regards

Regards

Perry


--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Erica Letzerich" 
<eletzerich@y...> wrote:
> I might reconsider my statement about the animosity against Adyar 
> members. 
> 
> I know as much you know that there is a general prejudice of some 
> persons towards members of the LCC. What was the point of Dr. 
Tillet 
> mentioning that Pedro will be elected a Bishop of the LCC?
> 
> Dr. Tillet not happy went on, saying that Pedro is an employee of 
> Adyar, but he did not mention that before an employee he was and 
is 
> a theosophist dedicated to the cause, without any material 
> possession and the gain of being employee of Adyar does not confer 
> anyone any material status. On the contrary a series of sacrifices 
> and losses. But of course Dr. Tillets posts were a try to 
depreciate 
> Pedro's arguments using his status in the T.S. Adyar and the fact 
> that he is connected to the LCC as factors that could undermine 
his 
> ability to see things and to think. I think this is clear.
> 
> You mentioned that:
> "As one who has no dog in this fight, and who likes Pedro very 
much, 
> I still have to tell you that he started this particular line of 
> attack and counterattack. Again, what you see is through some
> organizational blinders."
> 
> Well below you may read the normal order of the events. 
> 
> gregory@
> Tue May 24, 2005 4:07 am
> "A correspondent from Perth (Western Australia) advises me that 
> Pedro is to be made a bishop of the Liberal Catholic Church later 
> this year by the Church's Presiding Bishop, Ian Hooker." Dr 
Gregory 
> Tillett
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theos-talk/message/26748
> 
> 
> prmoliveira" <prmoliveira@> 
> Date: Thu May 26, 2005 4:11 am
> 
> "Few of his readers perhaps know that Dr Tillet was a Clergy in 
Minor
> Orders (Cleric) in the Australian Province of the LCC for several
> years and contributed articles to its magazine ("Communion")." 
> pedro
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theos-talk/message/26793
> 
> Erica
> 
> 
> --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "kpauljohnson" 
> <kpauljohnson@y...> wrote:
> > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Erica Letzerich 
> <eletzerich@y...> 
> > wrote:
> > > Dear Krishtar,
> > 
> > > First of all I think that it is clear that there are a high 
> level 
> > of animosity expressed towards the members and dedicated fellows 
> > connected to the T.S. Adyar. I do not see any members of the 
T.S. 
> > Adyar within this forum trying to impose their ideas towards 
> others; 
> > on the contrary they defend their point of views with balance. 
> > > 
> > Dear Erica,
> > 
> > I think this is profoundly wrong on two counts. Count up all 
the 
> > attacks on non-Adyar Theosophical organizations emanating from 
> Daniel 
> > and Anand, and then reconsider the above statement.
> > 
> > Secondly, consider that many of us with highly critical 
attitudes 
> > toward the Adyar TS and some of its leaders past and present 
might 
> > have very positive attitudes toward most of the members we have 
> > known. (And some of the leaders, e.g. John Coats about whom 
nary 
> a 
> > bad word has ever been written here AFAIK.) I can certainly say 
> that 
> > for myself, and would suspect that several others here would 
agree.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Nobody is to be condemned to be a priest, to be an employee of 
> the 
> > T.S. Adyar or not. To use the personal choices of others, their 
> > religious preferences or their support for an author or other to 
> try 
> > to depreciate their point of view and opinions it is not a fair 
> game. 
> > I really did not see the point of Dr. Tillet announcing here in 
> this 
> > forum that Pedro will be a future Bishop of the LCC. 
> > > 
> > As one who has no dog in this fight, and who likes Pedro very 
> much, I 
> > still have to tell you that he started this particular line of 
> attack 
> > and counterattack. Again, what you see is through some 
> > organizational blinders.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > What he is trying to prove with these posts that Pedro's 
> opinions 
> > have not value because he is a priest of the LCC? Better try 
other 
> > arguments because these just express how small some people can 
act 
> in 
> > order to depreciate others.
> > > 
> > Please re-read that in light of the initial post about Tillett 
by 
> > Pedro. And please don't think I wish to deprecate you; I think 
> > you're generally one of the more fair and openminded 
participants 
> > here. But you've made two black/white blaming/excusing 
judgments 
> > here that are wrong -- WAY wrong-- on both counts.
> > 
> > Cheers,
> > 
> > Paul
> > 
> > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > krishtar <krishtar_a@b...> wrote:
> > > Hello Erica
> > > 
> > > It is a pity that much of what we have been acquainted, 
> > familiarized to, in terms of information about many subjects in 
> the 
> > Theosophical background and history has been under the form of 
all 
> > this animosity, isn#900;t it?
> > > People tend to become very literate but sometimes I gess the 
> lack 
> > of compassion screams at a higher level in the same proportion.
> > > Although I feel not comfortable to judge anyone#900;s 
bahaviour, 
> I 
> > cannot deny that people are again hurting and being hurt back in 
> the 
> > list.
> > > 
> > > Krishtar
> > > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > > From: Erica Letzerich 
> > > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
> > > Sent: Friday, May 27, 2005 5:01 AM
> > > Subject: Re: Theos-World Ecclesiastical associations?
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Guys why do I have the impression you love each other so 
much... 
> > > 
> > > Love is in the air 
> > > Oh oh oh 
> > > Oh oh oh 
> > > Love is in the air 
> > > 
> > > Erica
> > > 
> > > 
> > > gregory@z... wrote:
> > > Pedro's reference to a folly of my adolescence (i.e. 
membership 
> for 
> > a time of 
> > > the Liberal Catholic Church)is hardly a revelation of any 
> > significance. It is 
> > > explicitly noted in my biography of Leadbeater: p.viii.
> > > As for adding "ecclesiastical titles", what ecclesiastical 
title 
> is 
> > held by 
> > > someone at the lowest level of the Minor Orders of the Liberal 
> > catholic 
> > > Church??
> > > Should all who offer comments declare, in advance, any 
> memberships 
> > or 
> > > affiliations? If so, why has Pedro not declared that he is a 
> priest 
> > of the 
> > > LCC, and about to become a bishop? that he is an employee of 
the 
> > (Adyar) 
> > > Theosophical Society? It could be argued that these are 
relevant 
> > > considerations in evaluating the arguments he is making (and, 
in 
> > particular, 
> > > his refusal to give clear responses to questions about 
> Leadbeater).
> > > Is he a member of the ES? the ER? of Co-Masonry? should we 
check 
> > out his time 
> > > working at Adyar? 
> > > Perhaps we should we seek a complete curriculum vitae of 
> everyone 
> > posting on 
> > > the site?
> > > Does anyone care? I certainly don't. My assessment of 
arguments 
> is 
> > based on 
> > > the arguments themselves, not on the present or past 
> associations 
> > of the 
> > > person expressing the opinion. But "shooting the messenger" is 
> an 
> > old 
> > > political tactic. The gullible are often impressed.
> > > 
> > > Dr Gregory Tillett
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
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> > > 
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> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
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> > > 
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