Theos-Talk Archives (March 2005 Message tt00626)

I am glad that you read A.E.Powell's books. 
For beginners I would suggest 'Living Wisdom' by P.Pavri. It is also 
based on the writings of AB and CWL. Author is able to present 
principles in most easy language. It is a small book published by TPH 
Adyar. And after that beginner may read 'Theosophy Explained in 
Questions and Answers' by the same author published by the TPH. It is 
in detail version of earlier book. 
Anand Gholap


--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "M. Sufilight" <global-
theosophy@s...> wrote:
> Allright Anand,
> 
> I think, that was a very good answer, thanks.
> I agree with that.
> 
> And that CWL was "trying" is accepted.
> But "doing" would be better than "trying".
> 
> I tend to focus on Atma = Brahma like Krishna in Bhagavad Gita, 
VIII, v. 
> 16-22 (Sir Edwin Arnold - edition).
> 
> And one reason is, that because there - according to me - are many 
of these 
> small errors by CWL
> in his writings, I find it difficult to recommend his writings to 
the 
> beginner theosophists.
> 
> But I have to say, that if any books has helped me understand The 
Secret 
> Doctrine it was
> the 5 volumes written by A. E. Powell - volumes which are based on 
the 
> writings of CWL and Besant.
> We just need to take all the errors into account. The problem is, 
that the 
> texts are given various interpretations
> by the many theosophical Seekers.
> 
> 
> M. Sufilight
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Anand Gholap" <AnandGholap@A...>
> To: <theos-talk@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Sunday, March 27, 2005 3:01 PM
> Subject: Theos-World Re: Many Theos-talk members love and respect 
> Leadbeater.
> 
> 
> >
> >
> > Ego means soul or higher self.When we say only Self it means
> > consciousness or Monad. Higher self means Monad with three 
principles
> > Atma, Buddhi and higher mind. So higher self and Self are two
> > different terms.
> > It is the soul that evolves in various lives. Personality or lower
> > three bodies die after each life. Soul or Ego remains. It is soul
> > that evolves and it's evolution is important for people. 
Personality
> > should be used in such a way that soul evolves.
> > Leadbeater is trying to say that use personality or life in this
> > world in such a way that soul evolves and thereby getting closer 
to
> > self realization.
> > Students of occultism try to withdraw consciousness from 
personality
> > or lower three bodies. So consciousness gets focussed in higher 
self
> > and later it's 'attention' is withdrawn from higher self and 
focussed
> > on itself(i.e. on monad). That is ultimate state. So focussing
> > attention on higher self is a stage.
> >
> > Anand Gholap
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "M. Sufilight" <global-
> > theosophy@s...> wrote:
> >> Hallo Anand,
> >>
> >>
> >> I agree with your below view.
> >>
> >> So why did CWL then put so much emphasis on
> >> meditating on the higher self also known as the Ego?
> >>
> >> Quoting your previous email on CWL at
> >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theos-talk/message/23219:
> >>
> >> The man who understands
> >> > realizes that the only important thing is the life of the ego, 
and
> >> > that its progress is the object for which the temporary
> > personality
> >> > must be used. Therefore when he has to decide between two 
possible
> >> > courses he thinks not, as the ordinary man might: "Which will
> > bring
> >> > the greater pleasure and profit to me as a personality?"
> > but "Which
> >> > will bring greater progress to me as an ego?"
> >>
> >> You see I have difficulties with CWL's statement that the only -
> > "important
> >> thing is the life of the ego".
> >>
> >>
> >> from
> >> M. Sufilight
> >>
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message ----- 
> >> From: "Anand Gholap" <AnandGholap@A...>
> >> To: <theos-talk@yahoogroups.com>
> >> Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2005 8:46 PM
> >> Subject: Theos-World Re: Many Theos-talk members love and respect
> >> Leadbeater.
> >>
> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Brmhan word is not used much by CWL. In some old works Bramhan
> > means
> >> > God. In meditation we don't concentrate on Ego. It is said that
> >> > consciousness or Monad is on Monadic plane which above Atmic
> > plane.
> >> > So if in your terminology Atma=Bramhan=Consciousness=Self, then
> > you
> >> > may concentrate on Atma(to express it in your terminology)
> >> > See, when consciousness withdraws from external things in all
> > lower
> >> > planes like astral, mental, physical then what remains ? Then
> >> > consciousness focusses on itself. Supposing that you are
> > discussing
> >> > with ten people in your room and TV is on. You are aware of
> > things in
> >> > physical plane. Now all of these people go out, you turn off 
TV,
> >> > lights and music. Then you are aware of your own thoughts and
> >> > emotions. So you have withdrawn to some extent focus of 
attention
> >> > from physical plane. Similarly it should withdraw from all 
lower
> >> > planes below Monadic plane.
> >> > Anand Gholap
> >> >
> >> > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "M. Sufilight" <global-
> >> > theosophy@s...> wrote:
> >> >> Hallo Anand,
> >> >>
> >> >> But Anand I think I was referring to the fact that Atma =
> > Brahman,
> >> >> and that to meditate on Brahman would be to meditate upon ones
> >> > inner self.
> >> >> So I ask again would it be allright to meditate upon Atma - 
or
> >> > Brahman
> >> >> or is it absolutely required as so very important to meditate
> > upon
> >> > the Ego -
> >> >> also known as the Higher self ???
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> You wrote:
> >> >> "But in meditation consciousness should withdraw
> >> >> > from outer things and focus on itself."
> >> >>
> >> >> My answer:
> >> >> Well - yes, but how do you define outer things or beings?
> >> >> Is it only the physical - or is it also the astral or mental
> > ones ?
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> M. Sufilight
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- 
> >> >> From: "Anand Gholap" <AnandGholap@A...>
> >> >> To: <theos-talk@yahoogroups.com>
> >> >> Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2005 8:03 PM
> >> >> Subject: Theos-World Re: Many Theos-talk members love and 
respect
> >> >> Leadbeater.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > One should first know what terminology author is using. 
Annie
> >> > Besant
> >> >> > standardised terminology which was followed strictly by all
> >> > authors
> >> >> > later in Adyar TS. Ego means higher self or soul. In long
> > series
> >> > of
> >> >> > lives this soul or ego evolves. So it's evolution is
> > important. In
> >> >> > meditation consciousness should try to consciousness 
itself. In
> >> > most
> >> >> > people consciousness focusses attention on external things
> >> > perceived
> >> >> > by various bodies. But in meditation consciousness should
> > withdraw
> >> >> > from outer things and focus on itself.
> >> >> > God means Parabramha which is described as "Of the Absolute,
> > the
> >> >> > Infinite, the All-embracing, we can at our present
> >> >> > stage know nothing, except that It is; we can say nothing 
that
> > is
> >> > not
> >> >> > a limitation, and therefore inaccurate "
> >> >> > It is true that nobody knows much about Parabramha or God. 
But
> >> > when
> >> >> > occultist makes progress he knows unity of all.
> >> >> > Logos does not have gender male or female as far as I know.
> >> >> > Theosophy is complex so if a beginner is evolved 
intellectually
> >> > and
> >> >> > to some extent spiritually, he would like books of 
Leadbeater.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Anand Gholap
> >> >> >
> >> >> > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "M. Sufilight" <global-
> >> >> > theosophy@s...> wrote:
> >> >> >> Being an honest seeker, who also have seen Harry Potter,
> >> >> >> I have a few questions:
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Is CWL suggesting, that one should concentrate upon the 
Ego,
> > but
> >> >> > not upon
> >> >> >> God / Brahman ?
> >> >> >> Or what is he suggesting ?
> >> >> >> Should I meditate on my Ego and not on God/Brahman as 
Atma ?
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> I quote CWL:
> >> >> >> "Of the Absolute, the Infinite, the All-embracing, we can 
at
> > our
> >> >> > present
> >> >> >> stage know nothing, except that It is; we can say nothing
> > that is
> >> >> > not a
> >> >> >> limitation, and therefore inaccurate.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> 25.
> >> > In
> >> >> > It are
> >> >> >> innumerable universes; in each universe countless solar
> > systems.
> >> >> > Each solar
> >> >> >> system is the expression of a mighty Being, whom we call 
the
> >> > Logos,
> >> >> > the Word
> >> >> >> of God, the Solar Deity. He is to it all that men mean by
> > God. He
> >> >> > permeates
> >> >> >> it; there is nothing in it which is not He; it is the
> >> > manifestation
> >> >> > of Him
> >> >> >> in such matter as we can see. Yet He exists above it and
> > outside
> >> >> > it, living
> >> >> >> a stupendous life of His own among His Peers. As is said in
> >> > Eastern
> >> >> >> Scripture: "Having permeated this whole universe with one
> >> > fragment
> >> >> > of
> >> >> >> Myself, I remain".
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> 26.
> >> > Of
> >> >> > this
> >> >> >> higher life of His we can know nothing. But of the 
fragment of
> >> > His
> >> >> > life
> >> >> >> which energizes His system we may know something in the 
lower
> >> >> > levels of its
> >> >> >> manifestation. We may not see Him, but we may see His 
power at
> >> >> > work. No one
> >> >> >> who is clairvoyant can be atheistic; the evidence is too
> >> > tremendous.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> 27.
> >> >> > Out of
> >> >> >> Himself He has called this mighty system into being. We who
> > are
> >> > in
> >> >> > it are
> >> >> >> evolving fragments of His life, Sparks of His divine Fire;
> > from
> >> > Him
> >> >> > we all
> >> >> >> have come; into Him we shall all return.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> 28.
> >> >> > Many have
> >> >> >> asked why He as done this; why He (Page 10) has emanated 
from
> >> >> > Himself all
> >> >> >> this system; why He has sent us forth to face the storms of
> > life.
> >> >> > We cannot
> >> >> >> know, nor is the question practical; suffice it that we are
> > here,
> >> >> > and we
> >> >> >> must do our best. Yet many philosophers have speculated on
> > this
> >> >> > point and
> >> >> >> many suggestions have been made. The most beautiful that I
> > know
> >> > is
> >> >> > that of a
> >> >> >> Gnostic philosopher:
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> > 29. "God is
> >> >> >> Love, but Love itself cannot be perfect unless it has those
> > upon
> >> >> > whom it can
> >> >> >> be lavished and by whom it can be returned. Therefore He 
put
> >> > forth
> >> >> > of
> >> >> >> Himself into matter, and He limited His glory, in order 
that
> >> >> > through this
> >> >> >> natural and slow process of evolution we might come into
> > being;
> >> > and
> >> >> > we in
> >> >> >> turn according to His will are to develop until we reach 
even
> > His
> >> >> > own level,
> >> >> >> and then the very love of God itself will become more 
perfect,
> >> >> > because it
> >> >> >> will then be lavished on those, His own children, who will
> > fully
> >> >> > understand
> >> >> >> and return it, and so His great scheme will be realized and
> > His
> >> >> > Will be
> >> >> >> done".
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Now I ask you:
> >> >> >> Is LOGOS as male or a female?
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> I just ask you how this teaching by CWL would be absorbed 
by
> > the
> >> >> > beginner
> >> >> >> Seekers of today?
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> -------
> >> >> >> A few words:
> >> >> >> >>> A different kind of Clairvoyance <<<
> >> >> >> Those interested in understanding the problems
> > surrounding "the
> >> >> > true or
> >> >> >> false
> >> >> >> Teachers of the Theosophical arts" could with advantage 
read
> > the
> >> >> > content of
> >> >> >> the following link and
> >> >> >> use the words Theossophy as Theosophical/Theosophy=
> > Sufi/Sufism
> >> > or
> >> >> > similar:
> >> >> >> http://www.katinkahesselink.net/sufi/sufi-shah.html
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> from
> >> >> >> M. Sufilight with a friendly smile...
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- 
> >> >> >> From: "Anand Gholap" <AnandGholap@A...>
> >> >> >> To: <theos-talk@yahoogroups.com>
> >> >> >> Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2005 7:08 PM
> >> >> >> Subject: Theos-World Re: Many Theos-talk members love and
> > respect
> >> >> >> Leadbeater.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > Here are some points.
> >> >> >> > " The object of the whole previous evolution has been to
> >> > produce
> >> >> > the
> >> >> >> > ego as a manifestation of the Monad. Then the ego in its
> > turn
> >> >> > evolves
> >> >> >> > by putting itself down into a succession of 
personalities.
> > Men
> >> >> > who do
> >> >> >> > not understand this look upon the personality as the 
self,
> > and
> >> >> >> > consequently live for it alone, and try to regulate their
> > lives
> >> >> > for
> >> >> >> > what appears to be its temporary advantage. The man who
> >> >> > understands
> >> >> >> > realizes that the only important thing is the life of the
> > ego,
> >> > and
> >> >> >> > that its progress is the object for which the temporary
> >> >> > personality
> >> >> >> > must be used. Therefore when he has to decide between two
> >> > possible
> >> >> >> > courses he thinks not, as the ordinary man might: "Which
> > will
> >> >> > bring
> >> >> >> > the greater pleasure and profit to me as a personality?"
> >> >> > but "Which
> >> >> >> > will bring greater progress to me as an ego?" Experience
> > soon
> >> >> > teaches
> >> >> >> > him that nothing can ever be really good for him, or for 
any
> >> > one,
> >> >> >> > which is not good for all, and so presently he learns to
> > forget
> >> >> >> > himself altogether, and to ask only what will be best for
> >> >> > humanity as
> >> >> >> > a whole. "
> >> >> >> > Complete book can be read at
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > http://www.anandgholap.net/Textbook_Of_Theosophy-CWL.htm
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > Anand Gholap
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >