Theos-Talk Archives (February 2005 Message tt00785)

Ignoring other things..
I guess if wetake a good look of all H.P.B's reactions on everything 
that was going on during her life time we can have a glimpse of how 
would she feel..
of course is just a guess
but the situations always repeat themselves... 

--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "christinaleestemaker" 
<christinaleestemaker@y...> wrote:
> 
> --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Alaya" <lalaya7@y...> wrote
> Nobody knows what HPB should feel or wanted to be with.
> For sure she should not look back and twisting over things not of 
> this time, only the usefull things and warnings are there in it!
> 
> Espcially she should not waiste her time now on staying and sitting 
> in the mud.
> 
> And why nobody ask him/herself what Jezus should do(after 2000 
years) 
> in a time that intelligence is working on all levels of the human 
> being?
> 
> 
> Christina
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  
> > Frank wrote something very interesting I think we should take a 
> > better look at.
> > 
> > >"If Besant and Leadbeater were wrong, hecould say that theyare 
> > wrong, they are fools, they are villains andblack magicians, 
> andmaybe 
> > they would even hate him for that and expellhim, but no onecould 
> > accuse him in split.
> > 
> > >""Konstantin, I can't follow your logic.The split was produced 
by 
> > the egoist Besant. Judge was the victim, not the 
> culprit.Furthermore, 
> > the split is not to be regarded asthe cause of the problem, but 
as 
> > the effect of it.The split was the last means of the Masters 
> > toprotect the cause and their true chelas.
> > 
> > >""The split was a kind of spiritual defense of theMasters 
against 
> > those Judases which turned againstit." [didn't H.P.B had to left 
> > Adyar and tell us the Masters are a dead letter there... didn't 
the 
> > Master warn Sinnet of a last `test' the T.S would suffer and that 
> > would decide if it was a sucess or a failure.. didn't the T.S 
> failed 
> > and H.P.B had to move and establish a new group (i.e – The E.S 
and 
> > the I.G apart from the T.S – something Olccot couldn't undertand 
> and 
> > a master had to stop his critizice).. dind't all this happened 
when 
> > H.P.B was alive, imagine what happened after she died.. far 
worse..-
>  
> > Alaya]Not he, who organizes the split is responsible forthe 
split, 
> > but rather he, who gives the firstcause for it."
> > 
> > I guess is also from Frank.. a great exemple i saw here once.. 
Who 
> > did cause thesplit in the church. Luther or the Church with is 
> > unproper and impious practices?
> > The same case goes on the T.S... If many tried and old members 
who 
> > knew H.P.B well left the Society, maybe is because something 
wrong 
> > was going on and they could corroborate that lack of respect to 
> > Blavatsky.
> > 
> > 
> > >>Konstantin rote:
> > 
> > "Sinnett objected to accept the clergeman at first, but it was
> > obviously against TS principles, and later they became friends." -
- 
> > If they did became friends I can't recall.. But one thing that 
> wecan 
> > be sure is that in The Investigation Court Comiteeof 1906 Sinnet 
> was 
> > one of the ones who were against Leadbeater.
> > 
> > ""Judge thought that because Chinese are 4th race
> > people they should die out."" – The passage you quote doesn't 
show 
> > any will that they should die... He is just arguing that they 
will 
> in 
> > proper time and naturally decay... As H.P.B shows in the S.D 
about 
> > other races.
> > You're being very parcial in your interpretation..- in my opinion.
> > 
> > If Hodson supported Leadbeater or not.. I don't think this is the 
> > point. Yes, I know he did, but we must remember that Hodson was a 
> > child when Leadbeater was in comand, and everything related to 
the 
> > impious leadbeater was `erased' from the Society.. Hodson was a 
> > initiate, not a Mahatma... And by his writing we can find the 
most 
> > humble man, and sometimes naive.
> > The thing is that too much attention is given to Leadbeater 
(since 
> > everything bad about him was properly erased).. and because 
Besant 
> > was the `winner' the good material of Judge is discarded.. and 
> > because Mrs. Radha prefers Krishnamurti and doens't like Hodson, 
> his 
> > material is not taken on due account.
> > The whole T.S today and after H.P.B's death is extremely 
> tendencious 
> > and partial.
> > 
> > I am glad you could learn a lot from Leadbeater..
> > However, I give me the right to don't take him so seriously..
> > I have read his books... and yes, it is true that there are some 
> good 
> > things on it.. but I am not inf favour of "Leadbeatarism" and 
> because 
> > of him H.P.B's writings and true Theosophy was much negleted.
> > Now his books stand behind the doors of the lower part of one of 
my 
> > shelfs... And haven read other things... I can only say that he 
is 
> > not infaliable and was disrespectfull to the masters.
> > 
> > Indeed, when Mr. Coats was President the T.S was in much better 
> hands.
> > 
> > "The more opinions in TS, the better." – opinions are just 
> opinions. 
> > That's why schools of mystery are not democratic. There is a head 
> > master.. and the others... Democracy fails, since people are not 
> wise 
> > enough... The T.S comitee of Adyar decided that H.P.B should 
leave 
> > it. A comitee of fools. In Occultism there no such thing 
> > as `democracy'.. that's why the T.S failed... it became a 
`club'... 
> > One needs not to be right to `win a discussion' he just need to 
> have 
> > a better dialetic, argumentation... There's a book from 
> > Shopenhauer "How to win a discussion withouth the need to be 
> > right"... That's what a democracy (in terms of theosophy) does... 
> You 
> > cannot say the the Roman Catholics were more Crhistian than the 
> > gnostics... but they `won the battle'... because they had power, 
> not 
> > because `jesus was with them'... 
> > People have a lot of opinions, and who realy cares for the pure 
> > teachings? Few...
> > 
> >  
> > "But those people who have power (i.e. officials) and impose
> > any teaching to othes, be it "pure theosophy", "neo-theosophy",
> > or "krishnamurtism", are really responsible for inefficiency of
> > theosophical movement and splits in it, and as far it concerns
> > them I agree with you." – That's what i am trying to say with my 
> poor 
> > english
> > 
> > 
> > > If HPB was to be reborn, I am sure she would never join the TS
> > 
> > "Not because she wouldn't apply but rather because she will be
> > not accepted :)"
> > 
> > She wouldn't be accepted? Why do you think that?
> > I guess she would be so miserably sad with the direction her 
> movement 
> > took that she would never apply... as she didn't return to adyar 
> when 
> > the fools became aware of their mistake and asked her to come 
back..
> > 
> > > The time for the TS was the 19 century...
> > 
> > "HPB predicted that it will reborn."
> > Theosophy is a teaching
> > A teaching always reborns in the last quarter of every century
> > She was talking about the teaching , not the society..
> > She herself had given up the society while she was still alive...
> > Her objective were others...