Theos-Talk Archives (February 2005 Message tt00774)

--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Alaya" <lalaya7@y...> wrote
Nobody knows what HPB should feel or wanted to be with.
For sure she should not look back and twisting over things not of 
this time, only the usefull things and warnings are there in it!

Espcially she should not waiste her time now on staying and sitting 
in the mud.

And why nobody ask him/herself what Jezus should do(after 2000 years) 
in a time that intelligence is working on all levels of the human 
being?


Christina




 
> Frank wrote something very interesting I think we should take a 
> better look at.
> 
> >"If Besant and Leadbeater were wrong, hecould say that theyare 
> wrong, they are fools, they are villains andblack magicians, 
andmaybe 
> they would even hate him for that and expellhim, but no onecould 
> accuse him in split.
> 
> >""Konstantin, I can't follow your logic.The split was produced by 
> the egoist Besant. Judge was the victim, not the 
culprit.Furthermore, 
> the split is not to be regarded asthe cause of the problem, but as 
> the effect of it.The split was the last means of the Masters 
> toprotect the cause and their true chelas.
> 
> >""The split was a kind of spiritual defense of theMasters against 
> those Judases which turned againstit." [didn't H.P.B had to left 
> Adyar and tell us the Masters are a dead letter there... didn't the 
> Master warn Sinnet of a last `test' the T.S would suffer and that 
> would decide if it was a sucess or a failure.. didn't the T.S 
failed 
> and H.P.B had to move and establish a new group (i.e – The E.S and 
> the I.G apart from the T.S – something Olccot couldn't undertand 
and 
> a master had to stop his critizice).. dind't all this happened when 
> H.P.B was alive, imagine what happened after she died.. far worse..-
 
> Alaya]Not he, who organizes the split is responsible forthe split, 
> but rather he, who gives the firstcause for it."
> 
> I guess is also from Frank.. a great exemple i saw here once.. Who 
> did cause thesplit in the church. Luther or the Church with is 
> unproper and impious practices?
> The same case goes on the T.S... If many tried and old members who 
> knew H.P.B well left the Society, maybe is because something wrong 
> was going on and they could corroborate that lack of respect to 
> Blavatsky.
> 
> 
> >>Konstantin rote:
> 
> "Sinnett objected to accept the clergeman at first, but it was
> obviously against TS principles, and later they became friends." -- 
> If they did became friends I can't recall.. But one thing that 
wecan 
> be sure is that in The Investigation Court Comiteeof 1906 Sinnet 
was 
> one of the ones who were against Leadbeater.
> 
> ""Judge thought that because Chinese are 4th race
> people they should die out."" – The passage you quote doesn't show 
> any will that they should die... He is just arguing that they will 
in 
> proper time and naturally decay... As H.P.B shows in the S.D about 
> other races.
> You're being very parcial in your interpretation..- in my opinion.
> 
> If Hodson supported Leadbeater or not.. I don't think this is the 
> point. Yes, I know he did, but we must remember that Hodson was a 
> child when Leadbeater was in comand, and everything related to the 
> impious leadbeater was `erased' from the Society.. Hodson was a 
> initiate, not a Mahatma... And by his writing we can find the most 
> humble man, and sometimes naive.
> The thing is that too much attention is given to Leadbeater (since 
> everything bad about him was properly erased).. and because Besant 
> was the `winner' the good material of Judge is discarded.. and 
> because Mrs. Radha prefers Krishnamurti and doens't like Hodson, 
his 
> material is not taken on due account.
> The whole T.S today and after H.P.B's death is extremely 
tendencious 
> and partial.
> 
> I am glad you could learn a lot from Leadbeater..
> However, I give me the right to don't take him so seriously..
> I have read his books... and yes, it is true that there are some 
good 
> things on it.. but I am not inf favour of "Leadbeatarism" and 
because 
> of him H.P.B's writings and true Theosophy was much negleted.
> Now his books stand behind the doors of the lower part of one of my 
> shelfs... And haven read other things... I can only say that he is 
> not infaliable and was disrespectfull to the masters.
> 
> Indeed, when Mr. Coats was President the T.S was in much better 
hands.
> 
> "The more opinions in TS, the better." – opinions are just 
opinions. 
> That's why schools of mystery are not democratic. There is a head 
> master.. and the others... Democracy fails, since people are not 
wise 
> enough... The T.S comitee of Adyar decided that H.P.B should leave 
> it. A comitee of fools. In Occultism there no such thing 
> as `democracy'.. that's why the T.S failed... it became a `club'... 
> One needs not to be right to `win a discussion' he just need to 
have 
> a better dialetic, argumentation... There's a book from 
> Shopenhauer "How to win a discussion withouth the need to be 
> right"... That's what a democracy (in terms of theosophy) does... 
You 
> cannot say the the Roman Catholics were more Crhistian than the 
> gnostics... but they `won the battle'... because they had power, 
not 
> because `jesus was with them'... 
> People have a lot of opinions, and who realy cares for the pure 
> teachings? Few...
> 
>  
> "But those people who have power (i.e. officials) and impose
> any teaching to othes, be it "pure theosophy", "neo-theosophy",
> or "krishnamurtism", are really responsible for inefficiency of
> theosophical movement and splits in it, and as far it concerns
> them I agree with you." – That's what i am trying to say with my 
poor 
> english
> 
> 
> > If HPB was to be reborn, I am sure she would never join the TS
> 
> "Not because she wouldn't apply but rather because she will be
> not accepted :)"
> 
> She wouldn't be accepted? Why do you think that?
> I guess she would be so miserably sad with the direction her 
movement 
> took that she would never apply... as she didn't return to adyar 
when 
> the fools became aware of their mistake and asked her to come back..
> 
> > The time for the TS was the 19 century...
> 
> "HPB predicted that it will reborn."
> Theosophy is a teaching
> A teaching always reborns in the last quarter of every century
> She was talking about the teaching , not the society..
> She herself had given up the society while she was still alive...
> Her objective were others...