Theos-Talk Archives (February 2005 Message tt00771)

Frank wrote something very interesting I think we should take a 
better look at.

>"If Besant and Leadbeater were wrong, hecould say that theyare 
wrong, they are fools, they are villains andblack magicians, andmaybe 
they would even hate him for that and expellhim, but no onecould 
accuse him in split.

>""Konstantin, I can't follow your logic.The split was produced by 
the egoist Besant. Judge was the victim, not the culprit.Furthermore, 
the split is not to be regarded asthe cause of the problem, but as 
the effect of it.The split was the last means of the Masters 
toprotect the cause and their true chelas.

>""The split was a kind of spiritual defense of theMasters against 
those Judases which turned againstit." [didn't H.P.B had to left 
Adyar and tell us the Masters are a dead letter there... didn't the 
Master warn Sinnet of a last `test' the T.S would suffer and that 
would decide if it was a sucess or a failure.. didn't the T.S failed 
and H.P.B had to move and establish a new group (i.e – The E.S and 
the I.G apart from the T.S – something Olccot couldn't undertand and 
a master had to stop his critizice).. dind't all this happened when 
H.P.B was alive, imagine what happened after she died.. far worse..- 
Alaya]Not he, who organizes the split is responsible forthe split, 
but rather he, who gives the firstcause for it."

I guess is also from Frank.. a great exemple i saw here once.. Who 
did cause thesplit in the church. Luther or the Church with is 
unproper and impious practices?
The same case goes on the T.S... If many tried and old members who 
knew H.P.B well left the Society, maybe is because something wrong 
was going on and they could corroborate that lack of respect to 
Blavatsky.


>>Konstantin rote:

"Sinnett objected to accept the clergeman at first, but it was
obviously against TS principles, and later they became friends." -- 
If they did became friends I can't recall.. But one thing that wecan 
be sure is that in The Investigation Court Comiteeof 1906 Sinnet was 
one of the ones who were against Leadbeater.

""Judge thought that because Chinese are 4th race
people they should die out."" – The passage you quote doesn't show 
any will that they should die... He is just arguing that they will in 
proper time and naturally decay... As H.P.B shows in the S.D about 
other races.
You're being very parcial in your interpretation..- in my opinion.

If Hodson supported Leadbeater or not.. I don't think this is the 
point. Yes, I know he did, but we must remember that Hodson was a 
child when Leadbeater was in comand, and everything related to the 
impious leadbeater was `erased' from the Society.. Hodson was a 
initiate, not a Mahatma... And by his writing we can find the most 
humble man, and sometimes naive.
The thing is that too much attention is given to Leadbeater (since 
everything bad about him was properly erased).. and because Besant 
was the `winner' the good material of Judge is discarded.. and 
because Mrs. Radha prefers Krishnamurti and doens't like Hodson, his 
material is not taken on due account.
The whole T.S today and after H.P.B's death is extremely tendencious 
and partial.

I am glad you could learn a lot from Leadbeater..
However, I give me the right to don't take him so seriously..
I have read his books... and yes, it is true that there are some good 
things on it.. but I am not inf favour of "Leadbeatarism" and because 
of him H.P.B's writings and true Theosophy was much negleted.
Now his books stand behind the doors of the lower part of one of my 
shelfs... And haven read other things... I can only say that he is 
not infaliable and was disrespectfull to the masters.

Indeed, when Mr. Coats was President the T.S was in much better hands.

"The more opinions in TS, the better." – opinions are just opinions. 
That's why schools of mystery are not democratic. There is a head 
master.. and the others... Democracy fails, since people are not wise 
enough... The T.S comitee of Adyar decided that H.P.B should leave 
it. A comitee of fools. In Occultism there no such thing 
as `democracy'.. that's why the T.S failed... it became a `club'... 
One needs not to be right to `win a discussion' he just need to have 
a better dialetic, argumentation... There's a book from 
Shopenhauer "How to win a discussion withouth the need to be 
right"... That's what a democracy (in terms of theosophy) does... You 
cannot say the the Roman Catholics were more Crhistian than the 
gnostics... but they `won the battle'... because they had power, not 
because `jesus was with them'... 
People have a lot of opinions, and who realy cares for the pure 
teachings? Few...

 
"But those people who have power (i.e. officials) and impose
any teaching to othes, be it "pure theosophy", "neo-theosophy",
or "krishnamurtism", are really responsible for inefficiency of
theosophical movement and splits in it, and as far it concerns
them I agree with you." – That's what i am trying to say with my poor 
english


> If HPB was to be reborn, I am sure she would never join the TS

"Not because she wouldn't apply but rather because she will be
not accepted :)"

She wouldn't be accepted? Why do you think that?
I guess she would be so miserably sad with the direction her movement 
took that she would never apply... as she didn't return to adyar when 
the fools became aware of their mistake and asked her to come back..

> The time for the TS was the 19 century...

"HPB predicted that it will reborn."
Theosophy is a teaching
A teaching always reborns in the last quarter of every century
She was talking about the teaching , not the society..
She herself had given up the society while she was still alive...
Her objective were others...