Theos-Talk Archives (October 2004 Message tt00271)

Perry,

Thanks for your comments!

I'm curious: what do you think the 
theosophical idea or term might be
for gehenna??

I think you hit the nail on the head when you say:

"The talking snake and garden of Eden are seen as 
literal and without this literal interpretation 
the whole Christian theology falls flat on its face.
The only mainstream Christian group I've heard 
give ear to the possibility of a metaphorical 
reading of the bible is in the more liberal sector 
of the Anglican church."

That is certainly part of the problem with
the JW's interpretations as well as those
of Christian theology. But once you take that
into account, you can then look at the biblical
verses and see them in a quite different
light from the way either the JW's interpret them
or the way "Christian theology" interpret them.

I found that by carefully reading and studying
the Mahatma Letters, Isis Unveiled and other writings
of HPB, that all these subjects under discussion take
on new dimensions simply not seen in the literal 
and exoteric versions.

More later.

Daniel


--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Perry Coles" <perrycoles@y...> 
wrote:
> 
> Hi Daniel and all,
> Its quite interesting that the JWs don't believe in a literal hell
> where souls are burned but rather see hell (Hades-Sheol) as
> figurative. (Sheol the word translated as "hell" in the Old 
testament
> was the Hebrew word for grave" 
> 
> "And he said, My son shall not go down with you; for his brother is
> dead, and he only is left: if harm befall him by the way in which ye
> go, then will ye bring down my gray hairs with sorrow to Sheol." -
> Genesis 42:38; American Standard Version.
> 
> For the JWs there is no after death state at all except for 144,000
> chosen ones who will rule with "Christ" in "Heaven".
> All other plebs will live on earth in a "paradise" ruled under
> totalitarian dictatorship of Yahweh & his minion Christ.
> After death is a sleep till the dead are resurrected into the 
Paradise
> on Earth after Armageddon.
> 
> During the first 1000 years of "Christ's rule" the dead will be
> resurrected into physical bodies with all their memories from there
> pre- resurrected life.
> Here they will live forever with their resurrected relatives and 
those
> who where saved after Armageddon.
> 
> Most of their beliefs where borrowed from the Seventh day Adventists
> and / or from the writings of Charles Taze Russell an ex Adventist
> himself.
> 
> The correlation's I find are that are in the original theosophy 
after
> death there is unconsciousness (with certain exceptions)in Kama-loka
> (sheol) until the higher Manas awakens (resurrects) in
> Devachan.(Paradise?)
> The lower negative aspects have been purged (Armageddon?) in 
Kamaloka.
> 
> These can also be looked at on deeper levels I think as well in 
terms
> of globes rounds and chains.
> 
> HPB and the Kabalah also discuss the Nephesh as being the animal 
soul.
> The JWs say quite rightly that as the animals are described as 
having
> nephesh the term does not relate to an immortal soul.
> The problem is they then draw the conclusion that nephesh is
> describing the whole being rather than just an aspect.
> 
> The word nephesh is generally translated as soul, which the bible 
says
> that animals would also have nephesh.
> 
> This translation I have read is considered incomplete as it relates
> also the Greek term anemos (breath/air) the word soul coming from 
the
> latin solus - alone /sole. (also animus)
> 
> The other Hebrew term is Ruach which is related to an "invisible 
power"
> or Spirit and is more impersonal.
> 
> In the New testament the word Psyche is translated as soul.
> 
> The JWs draw many simplistic conclusions from there interpretations 
on
> the usage's on these words in the bible however at least in some 
cases
> they do point out some interesting points of difference from the
> standard fundamentalist beliefs but the underlying premise is the 
same
> and as well the demand for blind belief.
> 
> The talking snake and garden of Eden are seen as literal and without
> this literal interpretation the whole Christian theology falls flat 
on
> its face.
> The only mainstream Christian group I've heard give ear to the
> possibility of a metaphorical reading of the bible is in the more
> liberal sector of the Anglican church, they also have started to 
give
> women back their power through ordination and maybe even 
consecration
> in the church.
> Maybe this is needed before humanity can drop the whole idea of
> priesthood's?
> 
> As far as Christianity goes they seem to be the ones bringing it 
into
> the 21st century.
> 
> Perry
> 
> --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Daniel H. Caldwell"
> <danielhcaldwell@y...> wrote:
> > 
> > Jehovah Witnesses & Mahatma KH/HPB 
> > on Body/Soul/Spirit & Life after Death 
> > 
> > Some 35 years ago when I discovered the
> > Mahatma Letters & HPB's writings, I noticed 
> > some interesting SIMILARITIES between the 
> > teachings in the letters of Master K.H. and 
> > HPB's ISIS UNVEILED and the teachings of 
> > the Jehovah Witnesses and the Seventh-Day
> > Adventist on soul and spirit, life after death, etc.
> > 
> > At that time I also was studying a book titled:
> > 
> > The four major cults: 
> > Christian Science, Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormonism, Seventh-Day 
> > Adventism. 
> > by Anthony A Hoekema
> > 1963 
> > English Book xiv, 447 p. 24 cm. 
> > Grand Rapids, Eerdmans 
> > 
> > I also remember taking a copy of the Jehovah
> > Witnessses' IS THERE LIFE
> > AFTER DEATH? and underlining the similarities
> > with those in the Mahatma Letters.
> > 
> > I believe the small book IS THERE LIFE AFTER DEATH? 
> > is the correct title. The printing I usually
> > used or saw was bound in green. 
> > 
> > I'm wondering if any of the Theos-Talk readers
> > (maybe Perry???) has also seen and pondered
> > on these similarities. [Yes, I know there
> > are differences, too!]
> > 
> > In Isis Unveiled, the Mahatma Letters, 
> > and The Secret Doctrine, what terms are
> > used that would be equivalent to the 
> > FOLLOWING terms as found in the Old and New 
> > Testaments?
> > 
> > neshamah, nephesh, ruach 
> > 
> > sheol
> > 
> > soma, psyche, pneuma
> > 
> > hades, gehenna
> > 
> > demons, devils
> > 
> > Also what theosophical ideas
> > illuminate the following questions
> > discussed by Christians??
> > 
> > Are human beings conscious after
> > death and/or tormented in hell?
> > 
> > Is there a Resurrection of the dead?
> > 
> > What is the second death?
> > 
> > What does the "The Return of Christ" mean?
> > 
> > I include here my butterfly illustrations I
> > posted once on Theos-Talk:
> > 
> > As a Butterfly in Its Chrysalis
> > http://blavatskyarchives.com/mon/monwwdie.htm
> > 
> > Once Awakened from Their Post-mortem Torpor . . . .
> > http://blavatskyarchives.com/mon/revivingf.htm
> > 
> > Some useful background reading that might be
> > helpful is below:
> > 
> > DEATH, SOUL AND HELL 
> > http://www.heavendwellers.com/hd_death_soul_hell_menu.htm
> > 
> > THE BIBLICAL VIEW OF HUMAN NATURE
> > http://www.heavendwellers.com/hd_biblical_view_human_nature_1.htm
> > 
> > THE BIBLICAL VIEW OF DEATH
> > http://www.heavendwellers.com/hd_biblical_view_of_death_2.htm
> > 
> > Two Basic Views of Human Nature and Destiny 
> > http://www.heavendwellers.com/hd_two_views_human_nature.htm
> > 
> > The Doctrine of the Immortal Soul
> > http://www.heavendwellers.com/hd_doctrine_of_immortal_soul.htm
> > 
> > Origins of the Word 'Hell' 
> > http://www.heavendwellers.com/hd_origins_of_the_word_hell.htm
> > 
> > HADES
> > http://www.heavendwellers.com/hd_hades.htm
> > 
> > THE GRAVE 
> > http://www.heavendwellers.com/hd_the_grave.htm
> > 
> > Do YOU Have an IMMORTAL SOUL?
> > http://www.heavendwellers.com/hd_immortal_soul.htm
> > 
> > THE ORIGIN AND HISTORY OF HELL
> > http://www.heavendwellers.com/origen_and_history_of_hell.htm
> > 
> > 
> > See also:
> > 
> > THE SPIRIT
> > Is It Conscious After Death?
> > http://reslight.addr.com/thespirit.html
> > 
> > Neshamah
> > Is It an Immortal Soul in Humans?
> > http://reslight.addr.com/neshamah.html
> > 
> > Neshamah
> > http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Hebrew/heb.cgi?number=05397 
> > 
> > Ruach
> > http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Hebrew/heb.cgi?number=07307 
> > 
> > Nephesh
> > http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Hebrew/heb.cgi?number=05315 
> > 
> > Pneuma
> > http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Greek/grk.cgi?number=4151 
> > 
> > 
> > Daniel
> > http://blavatskystudycenter.org