Theos-Talk Archives (October 2004 Message tt00272)

Hi Daniel,
There are 2 other terms used in the new testament that relate to "hell"
One is as you mentioned Gehenna which means the `valley of Hinnom'
which was used for sacrifices to the god Morloch and was later used as
a dumping ground for the bodies of criminals and "unclean" carcasses
and rubbish.
Thus its later relation to a "pit of fire" for unclean spirits.

Gehenna in a theosophical sense may relate to more gross parts of the
Kama-loka perhaps.

The other term used is Tartarus (2 Peter 2:4) which comes from Homer
in the Iliad and Greek mythology as a place far below the Underworld
and a place for lesser spirits and gods such as Cronus and relates to
a low place.

So the teaching of a fiery hell is an invention to scare the
"faithful" into submission by the church fathers, as well as being a
symbol for the purification of gross elements.

I have found Charles Filmores writings as well as Corrine Heline's 
and Geoffrey Hodson's on the metaphysical interpretation very helpful
in putting a theosophical slant on the Bible.

Perry




--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Daniel H. Caldwell"
<danielhcaldwell@y...> wrote:
> 
> Perry,
> 
> Thanks for your comments!
> 
> I'm curious: what do you think the 
> theosophical idea or term might be
> for gehenna??
> 
> I think you hit the nail on the head when you say:
> 
> "The talking snake and garden of Eden are seen as 
> literal and without this literal interpretation 
> the whole Christian theology falls flat on its face.
> The only mainstream Christian group I've heard 
> give ear to the possibility of a metaphorical 
> reading of the bible is in the more liberal sector 
> of the Anglican church."
> 
> That is certainly part of the problem with
> the JW's interpretations as well as those
> of Christian theology. But once you take that
> into account, you can then look at the biblical
> verses and see them in a quite different
> light from the way either the JW's interpret them
> or the way "
Christian theology" interpret them.
> 
> I found that by carefully reading and studying
> the Mahatma Letters, Isis Unveiled and other writings
> of HPB, that all these subjects under discussion take
> on new dimensions simply not seen in the literal 
> and exoteric versions.
> 
> More later.
> 
> Daniel
> 
> 
> --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Perry Coles" <perrycoles@y...> 
> wrote:
> > 
> > Hi Daniel and all,
> > Its quite interesting that the JWs don't believe in a literal hell
> > where souls are burned but rather see hell (Hades-Sheol) as
> > figurative. (Sheol the word translated as "hell" in the Old 
> testament
> > was the Hebrew word for grave" 
> > 
> > "And he said, My son shall not go down with you; for his brother is
> > dead, and he only is left: if harm befall him by the way in which ye
> > go, then will ye bring down my gray hairs with sorrow to Sheol." -
> > Genesis 42:38; American Standard Version.
> > 
> > For the JWs there is no after death state at all except for 144,000
> > chosen ones who will rule with "Christ" in "Heaven".
> > All other plebs will live on earth in a "paradise" ruled under
> > totalitarian dictatorship of Yahweh & his minion Christ.
> > After death is a sleep till the dead are resurrected into the 
> Paradise
> > on Earth after Armageddon.
> > 
> > During the first 1000 years of "Christ's rule" the dead will be
> > resurrected into physical bodies with all their memories from there
> > pre- resurrected life.
> > Here they will live forever with their resurrected relatives and 
> those
> > who where saved after Armageddon.
> > 
> > Most of their beliefs where borrowed from the Seventh day Adventists
> > and / or from the writings of Charles Taze Russell an ex Adventist
> > himself.
> > 
> > The correlation's I find are that are in the original theosophy 
> after
> > death there is unconsciousness (with certain exceptions)in Kama-loka
> > (sheol) until the higher Manas awakens (resurrects) in
> > Devachan.(Paradise?)
> > The lower negative aspects have been purged (Armageddon?) in 
> Kamaloka.
> > 
> > These can also be looked at on deeper levels I think as well in 
> terms
> > of globes rounds and chains.
> > 
> > HPB and the Kabalah also discuss the Nephesh as being the animal 
> soul.
> > The JWs say quite rightly that as the animals are described as 
> having
> > nephesh the term does not relate to an immortal soul.
> > The problem is they then draw the conclusion that nephesh is
> > describing the whole being rather than just an aspect.
> > 
> > The word nephesh is generally translated as soul, which the bible 
> says
> > that animals would also have nephesh.
> > 
> > This translation I have read is considered incomplete as it relates
> > also the Greek term anemos (breath/air) the word soul coming from 
> the
> > latin solus - alone /sole. (also animus)
> > 
> > The other Hebrew term is Ruach which is related to an "invisible 
> power"
> > or Spirit and is more impersonal.
> > 
> > In the New testament the word Psyche is translated as soul.
> > 
> > The JWs draw many simplistic conclusions from there interpretations 
> on
> > the usage's on these words in the bible however at least in some 
> cases
> > they do point out some interesting points of difference from the
> > standard fundamentalist beliefs but the underlying premise is the 
> same
> > and as well the demand for blind belief.
> > 
> > The talking snake and garden of Eden are seen as literal and without
> > this literal interpretation the whole Christian theology falls flat 
> on
> > its face.
> > The only mainstream Christian group I've heard give ear to the
> > possibility of a metaphorical reading of the bible is in the more
> > liberal sector of the Anglican church, they also have started to 
> give
> > women back their power through ordination and maybe even 
> consecration
> > in the church.
> > Maybe this is needed before humanity can drop the whole idea of
> > priesthood's?
> > 
> > As far as Christianity goes they seem to be the ones bringing it 
> into
> > the 21st century.
> > 
> > Perry
> > 
> > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Daniel H. Caldwell"
> > <danielhcaldwell@y...> wrote:
> > > 
> > > Jehovah Witnesses & Mahatma KH/HPB 
> > > on Body/Soul/Spirit & Life after Death 
> > > 
> > > Some 35 years ago when I discovered the
> > > Mahatma Letters & HPB's writings, I noticed 
> > > some interesting SIMILARITIES between the 
> > > teachings in the letters of Master K.H. and 
> > > HPB's ISIS UNVEILED and the teachings of 
> > > the Jehovah Witnesses and the Seventh-Day
> > > Adventist on soul and spirit, life after death, etc.
> > > 
> > > At that time I also was studying a book titled:
> > > 
> > > The four major cults: 
> > > Christian Science, Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormonism, Seventh-Day 
> > > Adventism. 
> > > by Anthony A Hoekema
> > > 1963 
> > > English Book xiv, 447 p. 24 cm. 
> > > Grand Rapids, Eerdmans 
> > > 
> > > I also remember taking a copy of the Jehovah
> > > Witnessses' IS THERE LIFE
> > > AFTER DEATH? and underlining the similarities
> > > with those in the Mahatma Letters.
> > > 
> > > I believe the small book IS THERE LIFE AFTER DEATH? 
> > > is the correct title. The printing I usually
> > > used or saw was bound in green. 
> > > 
> > > I'm wondering if any of the Theos-Talk readers
> > > (maybe Perry???) has also seen and pondered
> > > on these similarities. [Yes, I know there
> > > are differences, too!]
> > > 
> > > In Isis Unveiled, the Mahatma Letters, 
> > > and The Secret Doctrine, what terms are
> > > used that would be equivalent to the 
> > > FOLLOWING terms as found in the Old and New 
> > > Testaments?
> > > 
> > > neshamah, nephesh, ruach 
> > > 
> > > sheol
> > > 
> > > soma, psyche, pneuma
> > > 
> > > hades, gehenna
> > > 
> > > demons, devils
> > > 
> > > Also what theosophical ideas
> > > illuminate the following questions
> > > discussed by Christians??
> > > 
> > > Are human beings conscious after
> > > death and/or tormented in hell?
> > > 
> > > Is there a Resurrection of the dead?
> > > 
> > > What is the second death?
> > > 
> > > What does the "The Return of Christ" mean?
> > > 
> > > I include here my butterfly illustrations I
> > > posted once on Theos-Talk:
> > > 
> > > As a Butterfly in Its Chrysalis
> > > http://blavatskyarchives.com/mon/monwwdie.htm
> > > 
> > > Once Awakened from Their Post-mortem Torpor . . . .
> > > http://blavatskyarchives.com/mon/revivingf.htm
> > > 
> > > Some useful background reading that might be
> > > helpful is below:
> > > 
> > > DEATH, SOUL AND HELL 
> > > http://www.heavendwellers.com/hd_death_soul_hell_menu.htm
> > > 
> > > THE BIBLICAL VIEW OF HUMAN NATURE
> > > http://www.heavendwellers.com/hd_biblical_view_human_nature_1.htm
> > > 
> > > THE BIBLICAL VIEW OF DEATH
> > > http://www.heavendwellers.com/hd_biblical_view_of_death_2.htm
> > > 
> > > Two Basic Views of Human Nature and Destiny 
> > > http://www.heavendwellers.com/hd_two_views_human_nature.htm
> > > 
> > > The Doctrine of the Immortal Soul
> > > http://www.heavendwellers.com/hd_doctrine_of_immortal_soul.htm
> > > 
> > > Origins of the Word 'Hell' 
> > > http://www.heavendwellers.com/hd_origins_of_the_word_hell.htm
> > > 
> > > HADES
> > > http://www.heavendwellers.com/hd_hades.htm
> > > 
> > > THE GRAVE 
> > > http://www.heavendwellers.com/hd_the_grave.htm
> > > 
> > > Do YOU Have an IMMORTAL SOUL?
> > > http://www.heavendwellers.com/hd_immortal_soul.htm
> > > 
> > > THE ORIGIN AND HISTORY OF HELL
> > > http://www.heavendwellers.com/origen_and_history_of_hell.htm
> > > 
> > > 
> > > See also:
> > > 
> > > THE SPIRIT
> > > Is It Conscious After Death?
> > > http://reslight.addr.com/thespirit.html
> > > 
> > > Neshamah
> > > Is It an Immortal Soul in Humans?
> > > http://reslight.addr.com/neshamah.html
> > > 
> > > Neshamah
> > > http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Hebrew/heb.cgi?number=05397 
> > > 
> > > Ruach
> > > http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Hebrew/heb.cgi?number=07307 
> > > 
> > > Nephesh
> > > http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Hebrew/heb.cgi?number=05315 
> > > 
> > > Pneuma
> > > http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Greek/grk.cgi?number=4151 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Daniel
> > > http://blavatskystudycenter.org