Theos-Talk Archives (September 2004 Message tt00683)

Actually I must confess that I never read Crowley, that is one great 
mistake of mine. Now actually Pedro answer to my question not you. I 
asked if anyone had the article of Mussolini, and he sent a quote of 
it. About the other stuff when you read the Himmler diary you will 
see the quote is there.
 
About the good bye as you wish. 
 
Erica


--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "worlduni_news" 
<worlduni_news@y...> wrote:
> Dear friend,
> 
> Initially I responded to your question about Annie Besant, the 
> President of the International Theosophical Society's support for 
> Mussolini (publishing him).
> 
> I suggested this probably could be understood by studying the 
> integral traditionalists that sprang from the TS and of whom among 
> others TS member J. Evola was a representative.
> 
> I note however you fail to mention any archeological or other 
> evidence that support your assumptions ..,including your 
(Crowleyan 
> stile stage act ?) claims that; "every new married soldier with 
his 
> wife to make love in the cemetery on the tombs of heroes (who have 
> died in war) to try to attract their soul to reborn."
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theos-talk/message/18985
> 
> 
> So I say good by ( I came. I saw, and… ,I leave).
>  
> For further information about your interests about Samothrace I 
> suggest you contact James R. McCredie, director of the excavations 
> in Samothrace conducted by the Institute of Fine Arts of New York 
> University for the American School of Classical
> Studies. I think he can help you further since he knows the place 
> very well; 
> 
> http://www.nyu.edu/fas/Faculty/MccredieJames.html
> 
> 
> --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Erica Letzerich 
<eletzerich@y...> 
> wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > Dear,
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > You said:
> > 
> > ...There where no Kabeiroi as it is called, in Samothrace...
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > First of all I have been studying the Greek mysteries for few 
> years now, and my description has nothing to do with early twenty 
> century as you mentioned. Which references you would like me to 
> offer first? Blavatsky or Orpheus? Historical or Mythological?  
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > According with Orpheus the beginning of the Greek Mysteries and 
> Rites was with the mysteries of Samothrace (Kabeiria Mysteries) 
and 
> the Eleusian mysteries are derived from them. The Kaveiria 
Mysteries 
> were dedicated to the Mystery of Human Birth, and the Eleusian 
> Mysteries dedicated to the Mysteries of death. 
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > They were also practicing the Kabeiria mysteries in other areas 
of 
> Greece, in Thessaloniki they used to have coins also in homenage 
to 
> the Samuthrace mysteries. Jason is accounted as the person that 
> took the Kabeiria mysteries from Samothrace to Thebes and Trojan.
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > Also Pausanias refers to the Athenian Methapos, who had 
> reorganized the Mysteries there, as having also established the 
> celebration of the Mysteries of the Kabeiroi for the Thebans. 
> Pausanias (4, 1, 7). 
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > The mysteries of Samuthrace interest me from long time now. In 
the 
> island there is one of the highest mountains of Greece whose pick 
> name is Selene (moon) in Greek. The island is famous for its 
healing 
> waters and many nascents. The Temple of the Kabeiria mysteries is 
> still there and it is called the temple of the Megalon Theon - 
Great 
> Gods. Unfortunately such place today here in Greece is used for 
> satanists performing obscure rites.
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > The word Kabeiria is probably from the arabian: 
> > 
> > Kebir: Great. 
> > 
> > Or Sanscrit: CAWIRA Strong.
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > Lets see what Blavatsky says about it:
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > The earliest Mysteries recorded in history are those of 
> Samothrace. 
> > 
> > (The Object of Mysteries)
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > Samuthrache: An island famous for its Mysteries, perhaps the 
> oldest ever established in our present race. The Samothracian 
> Mysteries were renowned all over the world. (Theosophical Glossary)
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > Now let us see other quotes:
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > You say:
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > ...There where no Kabeiroi as it is called, in Samothrace...
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > Grottoes of the Kabeiroi and Korybantian cliffs on the island of 
> Samothrake." –Dionysiaca 4.184
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > Diodorus Siculus 5.48.2
> > 
> > Zeus desired that the other of his two sons Iasion of Samothrake 
> might also attain honour, and so he instructed him in the 
initiatory 
> rites of the mysteries [of the Kabeiroi of Samothrake, which had 
> existed on the island since ancient times but was at that time, so 
> to speak, put in his hands; it is not lawful, however, for any but 
> the initiated to hear about the mysteries. And Iasion is reputed 
to 
> have been the first to initiate strangers into them and by this 
> means to bring the initiatory rite to high esteem. After this 
> Kadmos, the son of Agenor, came in the course of his quest for 
> Europe [his sister abducted by Zeus] to the Samothrakians, and 
after 
> participating in the initiation [into the mysteries of Samothrake] 
> he married Harmonia, who was the sister of Iasion and not, as the 
> Greeks recount in their mythologies, the daughter of Ares ...
> > Now the details of the initiatory rite [of the Mysteries] are 
> guarded among the matters not to be divulged and are communicated 
to 
> the initiates alone; but the fame has travelled wide of how these 
> gods [the Kabeiroi] appear to mankind and bring unexpected aid to 
> those initiates of their who call upon them in the midst of 
perils. 
> The claim is also made that men who have taken part in the 
mysteries 
> become both more pious and more just and better in every respect 
> than they were before. And this is the reason, we are told, why 
the 
> most famous both of the ancient heroes and of the demi-gods were 
> eagerly desirous to taking part in the initiatory rite; and in 
fact 
> Jason and the Dioskouroi, and Herakles and Orpheus as well, after 
> their initiation attained success in all the campaigns they 
> undertook, because these gods appeared to them. 
> > 
> > Herodotus 2.50.1
> > 
> > "The Athenians were then already counted as Greeks when the 
> Pelasgians came to live in the land with them and thereby began to 
> be considered as Greeks. Whoever has been initiated into the rites 
> of the Kabeiroi, which the Samothrakians learned from the 
Pelasgians 
> and now practice, understands what my meaning is. Samothrake was 
> formerly inhabited by those Pelasgians who came to live among the 
> Athenians, and it is from them that the Samothrakians take their 
> rites. The Athenians, then, were the first Greeks to make 
> ithyphallic images of Hermes, and they did this because the 
> Pelasgians taught them. The Pelasgians told a certain sacred tale 
> about this, which is set forth in the Samothracian mysteries.
> > 
> > Strabo Bk 7 Frag 47
> > 
> > Iasion and Dardanos, two brothers, used to live in Samothrake. 
But 
> when Iasion was struck by a thunderbolt because of his sin against 
> Demeter, Dardanos sailed away from Samothrake, went and took up 
his 
> abode at the foot of Mount Ida, calling the city Dardania, and 
> taught the Trojans the Samothrakian Mysteries.-
> > 
> > Argonautica 1.916f
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > They [the Argonauts] beached this ship at Samothrake … He 
> [Orpheus] wished them, by holy initiation, to learn something of 
the 
> secret rites, and so sail on with greater confidence across the 
> formidable sea. Of the rites I say no more, pausing only to salute 
> the isle itself and the Powers [the Kabeiroi] that dwell in it, to 
> whom belong the mysteries of which we must not sing.
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > Diodorus Siculus 4.43.1
> > 
> > There came on a great storm and the chieftains [Argonauts] had 
> given up hope of being saved, when Orpheus, they say, who was the 
> only one on ship-board who had ever been initiated in the 
mysteries 
> of the deities of Samothrake [the Kabeiroi, offered to these 
deities 
> prayers for their salvation. And immediately the wind died down 
and 
> two stars fell over the heads of the Dioskouroi, and the whole 
> company was amazed at the marvel which had taken place and 
concluded 
> that they had been rescued from their perils by an act of 
providence 
> of the gods. For this reason, the story of this reversal of 
fortune 
> for the Argonauts has been handed down to succeeding generations, 
> and sailors when caught in storms always direct their prayers to 
the 
> deities of Samothrake and attribute the appearance of the two 
stars 
> to the epiphany of the Dioskouroi. 
> > 
> > Diodorus Siculus 4.48.6
> > 
> > The Argonauts] had already reached the middle of the Pontic Sea 
> when the ran into a storm which put them in the greatest peril. 
But 
> when Orpheus … offered up prayers to the deities of Samothrake 
[the 
> Kabeiroi], the winds ceased and there appeared near the ship 
Glaukos 
> the Sea-God, as he is called ... and he counselled them, 
> accordingly, that so soon as they touched their lands they should 
> pray their vows to the gods [the Kabeiroi] through the 
intervention 
> of whom they had twice already been saved. 
> > 
> > Diodorus Siculus 4.49.8
> > 
> > The Argonauts, they say, set forth from the Troad and arrived at 
> Samothrake, where they again paid their vows to the great gods 
[the 
> Kabeiroi] and dedicated in the sacred precinct the bowls which are 
> preserved there even to this day. 
> > 
> > Aelian On Animals 15.23
> > 
> > They say that the pilot-fish is sacred not only to Poseidon but 
is 
> also beloved of the gods of Samothrake the Kabeiro. 
> > 
> > Valerius Flaccus 2.431
> > 
> > Electra's island [Samothrake] grows larger [as the Argonauts 
sail 
> towards the island], guarding the secret of the Thracian rites [of 
> the Kabeiroi and other gods]; for here dwells the great and 
terrible 
> god, and here are ordained penalties for an unguarded tongue. No 
> storm sent by Jove [Zeus] ever dares to beat with its billows upon 
> this land; of his own will the god makes fierce his waves, what 
time 
> he would forbid faithless sailors to touch his shores. But Thyotes 
> the priest meets the Minyae [Argonauts] and bids them welcome to 
the 
> land and to the temples, revealing their Mysteries to his guests. 
> Thus much, Samothrace, has the poet proclaimed thee to the nations 
> and the light of day; there stay, and let us keep our reverence 
for 
> holy mysteries. The Minyae, rejoicing in the new light of the sun 
> and full of their heavenly visions, seat themselves upon the 
thwarts 
> [and depart from the island. 
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > Erica Letzerich
> > 
> > worlduni_news <worlduni_news@y...> wrote:
> > Reg."Kaviria mysteries held in the Greek Island Samothrace" 
> > 
> > There where no Kabeiroi as it is called, in Samothrace. Also the 
> > description you quote seems typical for an early twentieth 
century 
> > interpretation when Eugenetics became a buzword and occultists 
> next 
> > started claiming they knew of an 'ancient' and of course 
> > very 'secret' Eugenic Occultism.Rudolf Steiner was one of them 
but 
> > also Aleister Crowley started mentioning 'magical' operations to 
> > create a ('moon') child.
> > 
> > The derivation of the name from Semitic/kabir/, "lord", "mighty 
> one" 
> > was proposed by J.J. Scaliger in 1619. And at Lemnos there were 
> > three Kabeiroi and three Kabeirid nymphs, and the Kabeiroi were 
> > associated at an early date with the principal deity of the 
> island, 
> > Hephaistos. At Thebes, there were two Kabiroi , who were also 
> > associated - but only in a casual, unsystematic way - with 
> Dionysos 
> > and his circle, or with Hermes and Pan.
> > 
> > They were Greek and it seems there where not many of them, 
perhaps 
> > only a family group, who settled in the countryside west of 
> Thebes. 
> > 
> > Although mentioned by Diodoros , the following passages by 
> > Pausanias are generally accepted as the best available primary 
> > source. I found a good translation in Anth. Palat. 6, 245),;
> > When one has gone on for 25 stades from here [i.e. the deserted 
> > western suburbs of Thebes], there is a grove of Demeter Kabeiria 
> and 
> > Kore: those who have been initiated are permitted to enter. The 
> > sanctuary of the Kabeiroi is about seven stades away from this 
> > grove. With regard to who the Kabeiroi are, and the nature of 
the 
> > rites performed for them and the Mother, I must be excused by 
men 
> of 
> > good will if I keep silent. But nothing hinders me from 
revealing 
> at 
> > least what the Thebans say was the origin of the rites. For once 
> > upon a time, they say, there was a city in this place, and men 
> named 
> > Kabeiraians, and Demeter came to know Prometheus, one of the 
> > Kabeiraians, and Aitnaios son of Prometheus, and entrusted 
> > some¬thing to them. It seemed to me impious to write down what 
> this 
> > thing was, and what happened to it: sufficc@»it to say that the 
> > cele¬bration of the mystery is a gift of Demeter to the 
> Kabeiraians.
> > 
> > At the time of the expedition of the Epigonoi and the capture of 
> > Thebes, the Kabeiraioi were uprooted by the Argives, and the 
> > cele¬bration of the mystery lapsed for a time. Later on, they 
say, 
> > Pelarge, daughter of Potneus, and her husband Isthmiades 
> established 
> > the ritual, to begin with at the same place, but then 
transferred 
> it 
> > to the so-called Alexiarous. But because Pelarge had performed 
> > initiations outside the ancient boundaries, Telondes and those 
of 
> > the clan of Kabeiritai who were left, returned to the Kabeiraia. 
> > They were required, in accordance with an oracle from Dodona, to 
> > establish various rites in honour of Pelarge, including the 
> > sacrifice of a beast bearing another in its womb.
> > 
> > The wrath which emanates from the Kabeiroi cannot be avoided by 
> men, 
> > as has been made clear on many occasions. For some laymen had 
the 
> > temerity to perform the Theban rites in the same way at 
Naupaktos, 
> > and punishment came upon them soon there¬after. And again, when 
> some 
> > members of Xerxes' army who had been left in Boiotia with 
> Mardonios, 
> > slipped into the sanctuary, possibly in the hope of plunder, but 
> > more, I think, through impiety, they were immediately driven mad 
> and 
> > perished by throw¬ing themselves off cliffs and into the sea. 
And 
> > when Alexander, victorious in battle, was setting fire to Thebes 
> > itself and the whole of the Thebais, some men from Macedonia who 
> had 
> > come into the sanctuary of the Kabeiroi, as being in enemy 
> > territory, were struck by thunder and lightning and killed. This 
> is 
> > how revered this sanc¬tuary has been from the very beginning.
> > (Pansanias 9, 25, 5-10)
> > 
> > 
> > Pausanias wrote much of his work during the reign of Marcus 
> Aurelius 
> > (AD 161-180). This was a time when renewed interest in the past 
of 
> > Hellas was at its highest point. Sanctuaries which had 
previously 
> > fallen into disuse were open once again, and rituals and 
festivals 
> > which had lapsed were being practised and celebrated anew. Many 
of 
> > those which Pausanias describes had been revived fairly 
recently. 
> So 
> > it was, too, with the Kabirion and its cult. It is hardly to be 
> > expected, therefore, that there would have been consistency any 
> more 
> > than there was continuity of activity. make this clear. (See M. 
B. 
> > Cosmopoulos, ed., Greek Mysteries: The Archaeology And Ritual Of 
> > Ancient Greek Mystery Cults, 2003, pp. 112-114).
> > 
> > 
> > Called In ancient Greek its called --- In theos-
> > talk@yahoogroups.com, "Erica Letzerich" wrote:
> > > In ancient Greece the Kaviria mysteries held in the Greek 
Island 
> > > Samothrace, it was the most ancient mystery and it was 
dedicated 
> > to 
> > > the mystery of human birth. They believed that they could 
> attract 
> > > enlightened souls to reborn. So with special way of life the 
> women 
> > > that were part of the misteries were preparing themselves to 
> have 
> > > the possibility to be mothers of enlightened souls.
> > > 
> > > Olympia the mother of Great Alexander when she left Egypt and 
> went 
> > > to Samothrace she was taking part of the Kaviria mysteries, 
> > actually 
> > > she meet Philip her husband there. But of course they were not 
> > > making anything bizarre. This was part of an ancient and very 
> > > mysterious rite they had in antiquity. After many years the 
> > Kabiria 
> > > mysteries were as many others corrupted and lost their 
original 
> > > meaning taking different forms and different interpretations 
> > through 
> > > history.
> > > 
> > > Erica
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Erica Letzerich .'.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 		
> > ---------------------------------
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > vote.yahoo.com - Register online to vote today!
> > 
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]