Theos-Talk Archives (September 2004 Message tt00520)

Anand,
There is an old and quite dishonest intellectual trick called
"building the straw man".
A point of argument is put forward, the person replying to that point
then diverts the argument by going off on a completely different
tangent in order to divert discussion.

KNOW ONE here has suggested `Masters and HPB claimed infallibility or
authority'. 

In fact it is dishonest to suggest this if you've really read the
postings rather than just emotively react to what is actually being
put forward.

This point has continually been emphasised and re-emphasised.
Why continue to make this quite false and misleading comment.

If genuine in trying to understand the theosophical teachings more
deeply why not embrace the opportunity in actually comparing the
differences.

Your quite brave claim that
"After studying writings of many Theosophists I found that Mr.
C.W.Leadbeater was far more accurate in entire TS history. No
Theosophical writer before him and after him could equal him."

Is CWL more "accurate" than the Mahatma's on their own teachings!?!
Can you please explain to me how this is possible?


Perry


--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Anand Gholap" <AnandGholap@A...>
wrote:
> Following post by Frank is extremely informative.
> After studying writings of many Theosophists I found that Mr. 
> C.W.Leadbeater was far more accurate in entire TS history. No 
> Theosophical writer before him and after him could equal him. 
> Anand Gholap
> 
> --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, ringding777@t... wrote:
> > Daniel asks:
> > >Annie Besant and C.W. Leadbeater were the
> > >first persons in modern
> > >times to write about Theosophy?
> > 
> > Yes, 19 times yes, according to Dr Peter Michel, German TPH
> > agent, in his hagiography "Leadbeater seen
> > with eyes of the Spirit":
> > http://www.amazon.de/exec/obidos/ASIN/3894271078/qid%
> 3D1095523379/302-3324974-4445658.
> > 
> > 1. Besant was regarded as the reincarnation
> > of Giordano Bruno (p. 17) - and that was much
> > before HPB's time!
> > 
> > 2. CWL was with D.K. in a former life in the school of
> > Pythagoras! That was much before 1875!
> > 
> > 3. According to Michel Leadbeater was presiding in 1873 (two
> > years before HPB started her TS) a committee on
> > Spiritualism. That A. H. Nethercot in his Besant biography
> > says that in his source "Secular Chronicle", June 1, 1873, a
> > "J. Leabeater" is mentioned, could be just a confusion (p.
> > 19).
> > 
> > 4. It was Leadbeater who "drafted" the
> > doctrine on the two paths (p. 75) - not HPB!
> > 
> > 5. It was CWL - not HPB - who taught the pleasures of
> > masturbation! "Therein he was ahead of the time" (p. 48)
> > 
> > 6. Leadbeater was able "to humanize his
> > famous cat" (p. 91) - HPB was not able to
> > bring a human soul into an animal, he was
> > first!
> > 
> > 7. It was Leadbeater, not HPB, who discovered
> > the theosophical world teacher, he was again
> > first!
> > 
> > 8. Leadbeater taught first that a chela must
> > not smoke, HPB violated that rule! It was
> > under CWL's influence that the non-smoking
> > clause was inserted into the ES rules! (p.
> > 103). Again he was the first theosophical
> > teacher on that topic, supplanting HPB's
> > lesser occult knowledge!
> > 
> > 9. According to Michel HPB assumed that
> > deceased are unconscious in devachan, but
> > Leadbeater was the first who discovered that
> > the astral world is quite different "from the
> > assumptions of HPB and the Masters" (p.
> > 117f.).
> > 
> > 10. Leadbeater was the first who told the
> > truth of the angel world (p. 125)! HPB did
> > not know nothing of the angels, even believed
> > in her "early years" in spirits (p. 123)!
> > 
> > 11. It was Leadbeazer who first taught that
> > men is a flame child of God and "cannot
> > seperated from Him" (p. 132). HPB did not
> > know nothing of God!
> > 
> > 12. It was Leadbeater first who taught about
> > the life of the Martians, HPB's clairvoyance
> > was not broad enough to reach the Mars!
> > 
> > 13. It was Leadbeater's "wide, tolerant
> > attitude" of connecting Christianity with
> > Buddhism which "led in the 20th Century to a
> > living dialogue of the religions" (p. 157).
> > Here he is also first, in opposite to Judge,
> > who bummed in 1893 in Chicago!
> > 
> > 14. Leadbeater was the first theosophical
> > teacher, with whom the Logos Himself spoke!
> > He knew what the Logos wished: To create out
> > of Him beings who are like Him! (p. 161). The
> > Logos did never speak to HPB, perhaps because
> > the Logos Himself was a non-smoker, too!
> > (wait a second, I light a stick).
> > 
> > 15. Leadbeater promoted the "think positive"
> > attitude, in opposite to HPB which criticized
> > so much in her articles priests, scientists,
> > theosophists! CWL was much more harmonious
> > than HPB. Could be it be otherwise when he
> > was the Herold of the Manu?
> > 
> > 16. It was Leadbeater whom the Masters in
> > 1885 taught the doctrine of the Seven Rays
> > (p. 169), not to HPB.
> > 
> > 17. The "condemnation" of Leadbeater, "based
> > solemny on gossip" and never on facts,
> > "should fall silent after the publication of
> > this biography" (p. 173). "We are in debt to
> > this big Theosophist" (p. 173)!
> > 
> > 18. His perceptions of the higher bodies of
> > men, his aura and life after death were
> > pioneering and brighter proofed als some of
> > HPB or the Mahatma Letters" (p. 174)! Again
> > the "big seer and Initiate" (back cover) was
> > THE FIRST!
> > 
> > 19. Obviously even HPB was able to accept a
> > higher occult source as she has had "full
> > convidence" in Leadbeater from the first day
> > until the rest of her life" (p. 30-31).
> > 
> > Frank