Theos-Talk Archives (September 2004 Message tt00128)

Morten,

You wrote:

==============================================

The word "contact" meaning what?
 
If just in "contact" with.
Then I would without any hesitation say ALL of them.
And this i Knowledge, although some of you would question this.

==============================================

"Contact" as in "communication".

Are you saying that you believe without hesitation
that ALL these persons listed below were in contact
or in communication with H.P.B.'s Masters?

Why all of them?

In 1884 A.P. Sinnett believed he was in
contact or communication with Master K.H.
thru Mrs. Laura Holloway.

Sinnett wrote:

==================================================

Mrs. Holloway, a wonderfully gifted American psychic came to stay 
with us. . . . .She used to get vivid clairvoyant visions of the 
Master, - could pass on messages to me from K.H. and on one occasion 
he actually made use of her to speak to me in the first person." 

==================================================

Yet in a letter to Sinnett, Master KH wrote:

==================================================

You ask me if you can tell Miss Arundale what I told you thro' 
Mrs. H[olloway]. . . . . .[But] I have never . . . communicated with 
you or any one else thro' her. . . . . She is an excellent but quite 
undeveloped clairvoyante. 

==================================================

And Master KH wrote to Mrs. Holloway herself:

=======================================================

Your vivid creative fancy [imagination] evokes illusive Gurus and 
chelas, and puts into their mouths words coined the instant before in 
the mint of your mind, unknown to yourself. The false appear as real, 
as the true, and you have no exact method of detection since you are 
yet prone to force your communications to agree with your 
preconceptions. . . . 

========================================================

Again Sinnett wrote:

========================================================

On the 26th of April 1886. . . we went . . . to the Albemarle 
Club . . . to meet a lady who was . . . desirous of making my 
acquaintance . . . . . I will give her a fictitious name and call her 
Mary. . . . shortly afterwards I tried a mesmeric experiment with her 
(in accordance with her wish) and obtained remarkable results - she 
went very easily into a trance in which she became unequivocally 
clairvoyant. . . .I became convinced that she clairvoyantly saw the 
mountain region in Tibet where the Master K.H. resided. . . . . It 
became obvious that Mary might become a link between myself and the 
Master. . . . . Mary came to stay with us . . . in February 1888 and 
our regular mesmeric sittings were resumed almost every evening, the 
Master [KH] talking to me through her in most cases. In this way I 
gathered a great deal of miscellaneous occult information. . . . . 
Mary left us to go to her own home in May 1888 having had mesmeric 
sitting almost every evening while she was with us, at most of which 
the Master spoke to me, - or rather dictated to her what he wished to 
say. She would pass into a higher condition in which she could be in 
touch with him and be enabled to repeat his words to her in reply to 
my questions or remarks.

===================================================

For a second time Master KH in a letter (dated August 22, 1888) to 
Colonel Henry S. Olcott denied Sinnett's claim: 

=====================================================

Since 1885 I have not written, nor caused to be written save thro' 
her [HPB's] agency, direct or remote, a letter or line to anybody in 
Europe or America, nor communicated orally with, or thro' any third 
party. Theosophists should learn it. You will understand later the 
significance of this declaration so keep it in mind. Her [HPB's] 
fidelity to our work being constant, and her sufferings having come 
upon her thro' it, neither I nor either of my Brother associates will 
desert or supplant her.

=====================================================

Therefore is it not likely that at least in some of these
claims after HPB's death, the individuals involved were simply
victims of their own "surexcited fancy"?

Their "vivid creative fancy" evoked "illusive Gurus" and put into 
their mouths [the imaginary Gurus or Masters] words coined the 
instant before in the mint of their own minds.

Morten, again here is another case in which KH wrote very
illuminating remarks. 

Stainton Moses (a famous English medium and "seer" of the 1870s and 
1880s) wrote to A.P. Sinnett about his own "spirit guide" Imperator:

". . . my inner spirit-sense is opened. Only yesterday . . . 
Imper[ator] . . . was clearly visible and audible to me. . . . "

To this comment by Stainton Moses [S.M.], Master Koot Hoomi wrote to 
Sinnett:

". . . So is Jesus and John the Baptist [clearly visible and audible] 
to Edward Maitland; [who is] as true and as honest and sincere as 
S.M. . . . And does not E. Maitland see Hermes the first and second 
and Elijah, etc. Finally does not Mrs. [Anna] Kingsford feel as sure 
as S.M. with regard to . . . [Imperator] that she saw and conversed 
with God!! . . . And who purer or more truthful than that woman or 
Maitland! Mystery, mystery will you exclaim. IGNORANCE we answer; the 
creation of that we believe in and want to see. . . . " 

And in another letter to Sinnett, the Mahatma KH wrote:

"Vainly do your modern seers and their prophetesses, creep into every 
cleft and crevice without outlet or continuity they chance to see; 
and still more vainly, when once within do they lift up their voices 
and loudly cry: 'Eureka! We have gotten a revelation from the Lord!' 
[or the Masters?, or the Lord Maitreya?, or THE SUPREME DIRECTOR
OF EVOLUTION ON THIS GLOBE????] —for verily have they nothing of
the kind. They have disturbed but bats, less blind their intruders; 
who, feeling them flying about, mistake them as often for angels
— as they too have wings! . . . " 

Of course, there are those who don't believe even in the reality
of HPB's own Masters and of her own claims to be in contact with 
them, but I am assuming you do not hold that particular view.  

Daniel
http://hpb.cc


> From: "Daniel H. Caldwell" <danielhcaldwell@y...>
> To: <theos-talk@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Saturday, September 04, 2004 3:29 AM
> Subject: Theos-World To Pedro & Anand: Serious Questions with 
Profound
> Implications
> 
> 
> > There are numerous individuals, besides Annie
> > Besant & C.W. Leadbeater, who claimed they
> > were ALSO in contact with H.P. Blavatsky's Masters.
> >
> > I give BELOW a partial listing including the
> > most prominent claimants.
> >
> > Do either one of you believe that ALL of
> > these individuals were actually in contact with
> > the Masters?
> >
> > And if your answer is "No" then could you
> > please share with the Theos-Talk audience
> > your reasons for accepting the claims of
> > some while rejecting the claims of others.
> >
> > Daniel
> > http://hpb.cc
> >
> > ===============================================
> >
> > Since HPB's death in 1891, NUMEROUS individuals
> > have claimed contact with her Masters, stating
> > that they were new "messengers" conveying further
> > esoteric teachings.
> >
> > (1) William Q. Judge said he was in contact with HPB's Master 
Morya
> > as well as the deceased HPB. Judge claimed he precipitated 
letters
> > from Master M. and gave out further esoteric teachings.
> >
> > (2) Annie Besant and Charles Leadbeater affirmed that they were in
> > direct communication with HPB's Masters and the deceased HPB.  
They
> > gave out various Theosophical teachings in their voluminous 
writings.
> >
> > (3) Katherine Tingley, the occult successor of Judge, said she 
was in
> > contact with HPB's Masters and claimed to have met on at least two
> > occasions the Master Morya in his physical body.
> >
> > (4) G. de Purucker, Tingley's successor, testified that the 
Masters
> > M. & K.H. came to visit him in 1929 at Theosophical Society
> > headquarters, Point Loma, San Diego, California. Purucker claimed
> > that he was allowed to give out deeper esoteric teachings than 
HPB,
> > Judge or Tingley had.
> >
> > (5) Alice Bailey said she was in contact with Masters K.H. and D.K
> > and wrote more than 20 volumes of teachings said to be from D.K. 
She
> > even gave out further installments of the Stanzas of Dzyan.
> >
> > (6) Mrs. Francia A. La Due (of the Temple of the People) gave out
> > messages from the Masters, especially from Hilarion. She also
> > published more Stanzas from the Book of Dzyan.
> >
> > (7) Guy Ballard (of the "I Am" Movement) claimed to be in
> > communication with the Masters, especially St. Germain.
> >
> > (8) Helena Roerich (of the Agni Yoga Society) published some 13
> > volumes of communications supposedly from the Master Morya.
> >
> > (9) Mark Prophet and his wife Elizabeth Clare (of the Church
> > Universal and Triumphant) claimed to be the emissaries of the 
Great
> > White Brotherhood and have channeled thousands of messages from El
> > Morya, Kut Humi, the Virgin Mary, Hercules, Chastity and a 
variety of
> > other Masters and entities.
> >
> > (10) Earlyne Chaney (of Astara) believed she was in communication
> > with Kut-Hi-Mi and Zoser and other Masters of the Great White
> > Brotherhood. She has given out various so-called esoteric and 
occult
> > teachings.
> >
> > (11) Nada-Yolanda (of Mark-Age, Inc) has channeled numerous 
messages
> > from M., K.H., and others Masters associated with UFOs.
> >
> > (12) Max Heindel, Rudolf Steiner and Geoffrey Hodson have claimed
> > clairvoyant powers and to be in contact with various Masters -
> > Rosicrucian, Theosophical or otherwise.
> >
> > (13) Other supposed communications from HPB's Masters have come 
from
> > Brother Philip in his book titled Secret of the Andes, from Cyril
> > Scott in his series of books starting with The Initiate, and from
> > David Anrias in his book Through the Eyes of the Masters.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >