Theos-Talk Archives (July 2004 Message tt00417)

Yes, I'm foolish enough to think that a spiritual teacher should at
least have a basic sense of morality. I'll agree that it is hard to
judge a book by its cover and that therefore one can't always judge
(and shouldn't). Still, in the case of Leadbeater the evidence points
to a degeneration, not a purification, IMO (this mainly based on
Krishnamurti's changing attitude to him). Unfortunately there is
pretty strong evidence that he went beyond 'indicative action'. Also,
from a recent article in Theosophical History it would seem that at
least with some boys the frequency wasn't such that it would tally
with the below description and excuses.

Katinka
--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Anand Gholap" <AnandGholap@A...>
wrote:
> That time I was talking to Katinka and I knew from other messages
from Katinka that it was major concern for her. So I thought it fit to
write a sentence or two about it.
> Anand Gholap
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: Daniel H. Caldwell 
> To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
> Sent: Saturday, July 24, 2004 10:30 PM
> Subject: Theos-World Anand to Gregory: Re: Leadbeater revised
> 
> 
> Dear Anand,
> 
> In response to Gregory's comments, you write that
> 
> "I am not interested in that subject...."
> 
> But it was YOU who first wrote about the subject as
> follows:
> 
> "Boys asked him [Leadbeater] what to do about 
> continuous sexual thoughts in their minds. 
> Leadbeater replied masturbation would relieve 
> from those thoughts for some time. Any doctor 
> will tell you he is right. From that statement 
> many stories were created by others about CWL."
> 
> If not interested, why did you write anything
> about it at all? 
> 
> Once you wrote about it, Gregory is pointing
> out that in his opinion you were not
> properly stating the facts.
> 
> Aren't you interested in finding out the
> truth of the matter? I would hope you would
> be since you felt the need to write about it
> in the first place.
> 
> Daniel
> 
> 
> 
> --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Anand Gholap" <AnandGholap@A...> 
> wrote:
> > Dear Gregory,
> > I am not interested in that subject and guesses people make that 
> somebody might have done something to somebody. I am interested in 
> Theosophy and any book I read, I judge every sentence with my own 
> knowledge, intellect and intuition.
> > Best regards.
> > Anand Gholap
> > 
> > Original Message ----- 
> > From: gregory 
> > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
> > Sent: Saturday, July 24, 2004 1:59 PM
> > Subject: Theos-World Leadbeater revised
> > 
> > 
> > Anand Gholap claimed:
> > 
> > "(4) Boys asked him [Leadbeater] what to do about continuous 
> sexual 
> > thoughts in their minds. Leadbeater replied masturbation would 
> relieve 
> > from those thoughts for some time. Any doctor will tell you he is 
> right. 
> > >From that statement many stories were created by others about 
> CWL."
> > 
> > Interesting revision of history, but, alas, simply false. 
> > 
> > Leadbeater, by his own admission:
> > 
> > (i) claimed to be able to know clairvoyantly when boys where 
> experiencing 
> > sexual desire and initiated discussions about masturbation with 
> them;
> > 
> > (ii) "taught" (his word) masturbation to boys [whatever "taught" 
> might 
> > mean];
> > 
> > (iii) included "indicative action" in his "teaching" of 
> masturbation;
> > 
> > (iv) may have used "physical touch" in his "teaching" of 
> masturbation;
> > 
> > (v) did such things to pre-pubescent boys.
> > 
> > This is a long way - morally and legally - from providing 
> counselling to 
> > boys who sought his advice. Any doctor (or psychologist or 
> clergyman or 
> > counsellor) who did what Leadbeater admitted doing would be de-
> registered 
> > and sent to jail.
> > 
> > Dr Gregory Tillett