Theos-Talk Archives (March 2004 Message tt00488)

Thanks Jerry for the clarification.

Morten, here is the URL for

Occult Investigations: A Description of the Work of Annie Besant and 
C.W. Leadbeater by C. Jinarajadasa
http://www.tphta.ws/TPH_OCIV.HTM

Daniel


--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Jerry Hejka-Ekins <jjhe@c...> 
wrote:
> Hello Morten Nymann Olsen,
> 
> Yes the parallels between Masters on the Path and Initiation Human 
and 
> Solar are striking, aren't they? Actually, the originator of the 
> material was CWL, but not in 1925. Rather, the material began 
evolving 
> in stages beginning around 1895, and the material you are 
interested 
> began to be published as ES teachings as early as 1910. In 1912, 
CWL, 
> Besant, G. Arundale, C. Jinarajadasa, Krishnamurti and Nitya stayed 
> together for a time in Taormina Italy, where CWL gave the young men 
> "occult training." There is a very interesting book published 
recently 
> by Joseph Ross, which publishes for the first time some letters 
that 
> were written by the above during this period. You might also look 
at C. 
> Jinarajadasa's Occult Investigations, which documents 
this "retreat" as 
> well as the circumstances which brought it about. I'm confident 
think 
> that if you carefully read through just these published and 
available 
> accounts, you will agree that the Hierarchy teachings, the Lord 
> Maitreya, the coming Christ, etc. were already unveiled in 1912.
> 
> --jhe
> 
> 
> 
> Morten Nymann Olesen wrote:
> 
> >Hallo Daniel and all,
> >
> >My views are:
> >
> >I thought I was referring to your - subject line - in the email 
and not
> >Jerry's quote.
> >
> >I am already aware of the CWL versus Bailey similarities between 
the two
> >mentioned books.
> >But wasn't CWL's book published as late as - first edition 1925. 
And
> >Bailey's book as early as 1922.
> >http://www.tphta.ws/CWL_MATP.HTM (Leadbeater)
> >http://beaskund.helloyou.ws/netnews/bk/toc.html (Bailey)
> >
> >So all we have is some not quite true remarks comming from Jerry.
> >The words used was : "Many of Bailey's Teachings DRAWN DIRECTLY 
from Besant
> >&
> >Leadbeater".
> >
> >I cannot agree upon that formulation.
> >I say this even without having had any of the original papers from 
ES in my
> >physical hands.
> >
> >THERE IS NO RELIGION HIGHER THAN THE TRUTH
> >And those distorted remarks we withness from time to time is no 
good.
> >
> >Such emails is the same as claiming, that the Jesuits already has 
a base on
> >Mars.
> >I hope you get my drift.
> >
> >Surprised ?
> >Well only on, that none within Adyar or the Esoteric Section has 
done any
> >efforts to deal with this knowledge for years.
> >They should have protested if they aimed follow Blavatsky's 
teachings in the
> >below.
> >
> >Blavatsky might --- also --- be helpful on this one:
> >"ON PSEUDO-THEOSOPHY"
> >http://www.blavatsky.net/blavatsky/arts/OnPseudoTheosophy.htm
> >
> >
> >
> >from
> >M. Sufilight with peace and love...
> >
> >
> >----- Original Message ----- 
> >From: "Daniel H. Caldwell" <danielhcaldwell@y...>
> >To: <theos-talk@yahoogroups.com>
> >Sent: Monday, March 22, 2004 4:09 PM
> >Subject: Theos-World Morten, please ask Jerry Hejka-Ekins
> >
> >
> > 
> >
> >>Morten on "Many of Bailey's Teachings DRAWN DIRECTLY from Besant &
> >>Leadbeater"
> >>
> >>Morten,
> >>
> >>My quotes show that it was Jerry Hejka-Ekins who wrote:
> >>
> >>"From my earlier perusal of AAB's writings, I found
> >>that many of her teachings were DRAWN DIRECTLY from
> >>Besant and Leadbeater's E.S. writings...." caps added
> >>
> >>Jerry has posted some contributions of late on Theos-Talk.
> >>Hopefully Jerry will see your question and elucidate
> >>the point he made.
> >>
> >>But I would say that you could start with comparing
> >>Bailey's "Initiation Human and Solar" with Leadbeater's
> >>"The Masters and the Path."
> >>
> >>OBTW, you seem somewhat surprised by Jerry's statement.
> >>Why?
> >>
> >>Daniel
> >>
> >>--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Morten Nymann Olesen" <global-
> >>theosophy@a...> wrote:
> >> 
> >>
> >>>Hallo Daniel and all,
> >>>
> >>>What is this ?
> >>>How do you define the word "many"
> >>>when you say "Many of Bailey's Teachings DRAWN DIRECTLY from 
Besant
> >>> 
> >>>
> >>&
> >> 
> >>
> >>>Leadbeater" ???
> >>>
> >>>If this is true - dead-letter, then this is historical, and we
> >>> 
> >>>
> >>aught to
> >> 
> >>
> >>>spread the word to everyone.
> >>>
> >>>Please help me out Daniel.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>from
> >>>M. Sufilight with peace and love...
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>----- Original Message ----- 
> >>>From: "Daniel H. Caldwell" <danielhcaldwell@y...>
> >>>To: <theos-talk@yahoogroups.com>
> >>>Sent: Monday, March 22, 2004 5:19 AM
> >>>Subject: Theos-World Many of Bailey's Teachings DRAWN DIRECTLY 
from
> >>> 
> >>>
> >>Besant &
> >> 
> >>
> >>>Leadbeater
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>On Theos-L in a posting dated Jan. 12, 1994, Jerry
> >>>Hejka-Ekins wrote:
> >>>
> >>>"From my earlier perusal of AAB's writings, I found
> >>>that many of her teachings were DRAWN DIRECTLY from
> >>>Besant and Leadbeater's E.S. writings, which to this day,
> >>>are not publicly available." Bold added.
> >>>Quoted from:
> >>>http://theosophy.net/tl-text/TL199401.TXT
> >>>
> >>>In another posting dated Jan 6, 2003 and posted to
> >>>Theos-Talk, Jerry added details:
> >>>
> >>>"The Maitreya teaching was originally tied to
> >>>Krishnamurti, the supposed vehicle for the
> >>>Maitreya/Christ return. Besant, in an ES talk in
> >>>1909 or 10, presented the earliest (that I'm aware of)
> >>>full description of what LATER BECAME CREDITED as
> >>>the Bailey hierarchy-Maitreya and all."
> >>>
> >>>"This was published in The Link (a London ES journal)
> >>>and in the American EST Bulletin in 1910, I think,
> >>>but no later than this. Also in January 1912, CWL and
> >>>AB were called by the Maitreya to prepare Krishnamurti
> >>>and Jinarajadasa for their second initiation. . . .
> >>>Much of the material in Masters and the Path comes from
> >>>these early events. The account of this 1912 initiation
> >>>begins on pg. 298 in my 2nd edition (1927). . . ."
> >>>
> >>>"According to her Autobiography, (If my memory serves
> >>>me correctly) Bailey's first contact with Theosophy
> >>>was through the Pacific Grove Lodge around 1912.
> >>>She moved to Krotona Hollywood a year or two
> >>>thereafter where she joined the ES, and GAINED
> >>>ACCESS to the [Besant/Leadbeater] material concerning
> >>>the inner government and initiations, which was
> >>>only circulated through the ES at that time. . . ."
> >>>
> >>>". . . [Bailey's] Initiation Human and Solar was published
> >>>in 1922-her first book-I think. I read it some years ago,
> >>>and found it VERY FAITHFUL to the [Besant/Leadbeater]ES
> >>>teachings as they were presented from 1910-1918." Bold added.
> >>>Quoted from:
> >>>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theos-talk/message/10242
> >>>
> >>>For information on the deviations in the teachings of Besant
> >>>and Leadbeater from H.P. Blavatsky's original presentation
> >>>of Theosophy, see the following:
> >>>
> >>> . C.W. Leadbeater's and Annie Besant's Theosophical Teachings:
> >>>Comments by James A. Santucci, Jerry Hejka-Ekins and Alvin Boyd 
Kuhn
> >>>http://www.blavatskyarchives.com/thomas/index.htm#online
> >>>http://www.theosophy.info/thomas/index.htm#online
> >>>
> >>>. H.P. Blavatsky: A Great Betrayal by Alice Leighton Cleather.
> >>>1922. 106 pp.
> >>>http://kessingerpub.com/searchresults_orderthebook.lasso?
> >>>Title=12585457&Submit=Query
> >>>
> >>>. Theosophy Versus Neo-Theosophy (abridged edition, reprint of
> >>>Section I only) compiled by Margaret Thomas with additions by 
Mark
> >>>Jaqua.
> >>>http://www.blavatskyarchives.com/thomas/index.htm
> >>>http://www.theosophy.info/thomas/index.htm
> >>>
> >>>. Theosophy Or NeoTheosophy? (reprint of the complete,
> >>>unabridged
> >>>original edition) compiled by Margaret Thomas
> >>>http://www.blavatskyarchives.com/tontitlepage.pdf
> >>>http://www.theosophy.info/tontitlepage.pdf
> >>>
> >>>. Life After Death in Kamaloka (the Astral World): H.P.
> >>>Blavatsky
> >>>versus C.W. Leadbeater compiled by Ray Morgan
> >>>http://www.blavatskyarchives.com/morganafterdeath.htm
> >>>http://www.theosophy.info/morganafterdeath.htm
> >>>
> >>>. C.W. Leadbeater & H.P. Blavatsky about Life on Mars and Other
> >>>Planets
> >>>http://www.blavatskyarchives.com/leadbeatermars.htm
> >>>http://www.theosophy.info/leadbeatermars.htm
> >>>
> >>>Daniel
> >>>
> >>>Daniel H. Caldwell
> >>>BLAVATSKY STUDY CENTER/BLAVATSKY ARCHIVES
> >>>http://blavatskyarchives.com/introduction.htm
> >>>
> >>>--------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>"...Contrast alone can enable us to appreciate things at
> >>>their right value; and unless a judge compares notes and
> >>>hears both sides he can hardly come to a correct decision."
> >>>H.P. Blavatsky. The Theosophist, July, 1881, p. 2
> >>>--------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>You can always access our main site by
> >>>simply typing into the URL address
> >>>bar the following 6 characters:
> >>>
> >>>hpb.cc
> >>>
> >>>See also THEOSOPHY: FROM LONG-SEALED ANCIENT FOUNTAINS
> >>>http://www.theosophy.info/
> >>>
> >>>--------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>Yahoo! Groups Links
> >>> 
> >>>
> >>
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> >>
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> >
> > 
> >Yahoo! Groups Links
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> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]