Theos-Talk Archives (March 2004 Message tt00269)

Morten,

Thanks for your comments. 

It's interesting that you give us a list of possibilities:

...MAYBE the Hierarchy really had decided....

...And MAYBE the word "bodily" aught to be read. . . . 

. . . And maybe the use of dead letter on the exoterical level. . .

But please remember that the reverse MAY ALSO be true:

...Maybe the Hierarchy really had NOT decided....

...And maybe the word "bodily" aught to be read [just to mean 
physical]. . . . 

etc.

It is good to consider various possibilities but at the same
time one can take this to such lengths that one is lost
in a morass of if's, maybe's, couldbe's.

Using such a technique, one can explain away anything or can
believe anything including the very opposite. This is very
useful especially when wanting to muddle the issue.

For example, you speak against "the dead letter" and you suggest
we should be looking for more esoteric meanings. I don't
necessarily disagree with that. But seldom do you give any specific 
examples to illustrate exactly what you mean. Keeping the subject
in the realm of the "vague" and "fuzzy" doesn't help one to
clarify the issue. Some persons may believe that the
"vague" or "fuzzy" is somehow intuitive, somehow superior to
the "mental", etc.

Daniel


--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Morten Nymann Olesen" <global-
theosophy@a...> wrote:
> Hallo all,
> 
> My views are:
> 
> But Daniel is it not also true, that NEW times and a new audience 
requires
> new books of Wisdom - with no dead letter writing
> on whether Christ will arrive or not ?
> Maybe the Hierarchy really had decided that christ - in a certain 
sense-
> would come at Bailey's time of writing ?
> (Bhagavad Gita for instances claims that the Avatar comes when 
rightousness
> disappears ---)
> 
> And maybe the word "bodily" aught to be read in a different manner -
on the
> esoterical level ?
> And maybe the use of dead letter on the exoterical level was done
> deliberately to attract CERTAIN newcomers (with a christian outlook 
upon
> life) -
> maybe even if it was - a white lie ?
> 
> There are more options to consider...
> 
> from
> M. Sufilight with peace and love...
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Daniel H. Caldwell" <danielhcaldwell@y...>
> To: <theos-talk@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2004 12:50 AM
> Subject: Theos-World Further Comments on what Ali writes 
about "Blavatsky
> versus Bailey on 'Christ' "
> 
> 
> > Ali,
> >
> > Thanks again for your further comments in:
> >
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theos-talk/message/15199
> >
> > But I am puzzled by your statement that:
> >
> > "I don't think she negates a physicalized Christ,
> > but she does negate the exoteric Xtian dogma of
> > many milleniums."
> >
> > I guess it all depends upon what you mean by
> > "a physicalized Christ."
> >
> > But it seems pretty clear to me that HPB taught
> > something different. To requote her:
> >
> > ". . . 'the coming of Christ,' means the presence
> > of CHRISTOS in a regenerated world, and not at
> > all the actual coming in body of 'Christ' Jesus; . . .
> > for Christ--the true esoteric SAVIOUR--
> > is no man, but the DIVINE PRINCIPLE in
> > every human being."
> >
> > This appears in stark contrast to what Bailey
> > writes:
> >
> > "...Christ can MOVE FREELY among men, in
> > BODILY Presence...."
> >
> > "...He need not then remain in His present
> > retreat in CENTRAL ASIA. . . "
> >
> > Therefore if Christ "is no man, but the
> > DIVINE PRINCIPLE in every human being," then the
> > following by Bailey is utter nonsense:
> >
> > "The radio, the press, and the dissemination of
> > news, will make His coming different to that of
> > any previous Messenger; the swift modes of
> > transportation will make Him available to countless
> > millions, and by boat, rail and plane they can
> > reach Him: through television, His face can be
> > made familiar to all, and verily 'every eye shall
> > see Him."
> >
> > Why pray tell would any person need a TELEVISION (?)
> > to "see" him? Or a boat, train or plane? !!!
> >
> > I contend this is quite the opposite of what HPB
> > teaches:
> >
> > "It [genuine Theosophy] hushes the 'Lo here! and
> > lo there!' [in Central Asia!!!] and declares the
> > Christ, like the kingdom of heaven, to be within."
> >
> > Look within! The "true esoteric SAVIOUR" can be
> > found there!
> >
> > In the following text notice again how Alice Bailey
> > makes the Christ into a physical man. Notice that
> > Bailey definitely writes:
> >
> > "This tremendous event takes place each year in the
> > Himalayas. It is held in a valley and is not a mythical,
> > subconscious happening but a real, PHYSICAL plane
> > occurrence."
> >
> > And then she goes on to write:
> >
> > "Standing ahead of the crowd and in front of the rock were
> > three Figures. They formed a triangle and, to my surprise,
> > the one at the apex of the triangle seemed to me to
> > be the Christ."
> >
> > The more complete text is as follows:
> >
> > -------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > I twice (whilst living and working in Great Britain) took part in 
an
> > extraordinary ceremony and it was nearly two [39] decades after my
> > participation that I discovered what it was all about. The 
ceremony
> > in which I took part, I eventually found out, actually takes place
> > every year at the time of the "Full Moon of May." It is the full 
moon
> > of the Hindu calendar month of Vaisakha (Taurus) under its ancient
> > name. This month is of vital importance to all Buddhists and the
> > first day of this month is the national holiday known as the Hindu
> > New Year's Day. This tremendous event takes place each year in the
> > Himalayas. It is held in a valley and is not a mythical, 
subconscious
> > happening but a real, physical plane occurrence. I found myself
> > (whilst wide awake) in this valley and forming part of a vast,
> > orderly crowd - mostly oriental but with a large sprinkling of
> > occidental people. I knew exactly where I stood in that crowd and
> > realized that it was my correct place and indicated my spiritual
> > status.
> > http://beaskund.helloyou.ws/netnews/bk/autobiography/auto1015.html
> >
> >
> > The valley was large and oval shaped, rocky and with high 
mountains
> > on either side. The people, crowded in the valley, faced towards 
the
> > East and towards a narrow, bottlenecked passage at the end. Just
> > before this funnel shaped passage there stood an immense rock, 
rising
> > out of the floor of the valley like a great table, and on the top 
of
> > the rock was a crystal bowl which looked as if it was three feet
> > across. This bowl was full of water. Standing ahead of the crowd 
and
> > in front of the rock were three Figures. They formed a triangle 
and,
> > to my surprise, the one at the apex of the triangle seemed to me 
to
> > be the Christ. The waiting crowd appeared to be in constant 
movement,
> > and as they moved they formed great and familiar symbols - the 
Cross
> > in its various forms, the circle with the point in the center, the
> > five-pointed star and various interlaced triangles. It was almost
> > like a solemn, rhythmic dance, very slow and dignified but quite
> > soundless. Suddenly, the three Figures before the rock stretched 
out
> > Their arms towards the heavens. The [40] crowd froze into 
immobility.
> > At the far end of the bottleneck a Figure was seen in the sky,
> > hovering over the passage and slowly approaching the rock. I knew 
in
> > some subjective and certain fashion that it was the Buddha. I had 
a
> > sense of recognition. I knew at the same time that in no way was 
our
> > Christ belittled. I got a glimpse of the unity and of the Plan to
> > which the Christ, the Buddha and all the Masters are eternally
> > dedicated. I realized for the first time, though in a dim and
> > uncertain manner, the unity of all manifestation and that all
> > existence - the material world, the spiritual realm, the aspiring
> > disciple, the evolving animal and the beauty of the vegetable and
> > mineral kingdoms - constituted one divine and living whole which 
was
> > moving on to the demonstration of the glory of the Lord. I 
grasped -
> > faintly - that human beings needed the Christ and the Buddha and 
all
> > the Members of the planetary Hierarchy, and that there were
> > happenings and events of far greater moment to the progress of the
> > race than those recorded in history. I was left bewildered, 
because
> > to me (at that time) the heathen were still heathen and I was a
> > Christian. Deep and fundamental doubts were left in my mind. My 
life
> > was henceforth colored (and is today) by the knowledge that there
> > were Masters and subjective events upon the inner spiritual planes
> > and in the world of meaning which were a part of life itself, 
perhaps
> > the most important part. How could I fit these things into my 
limited
> > theology and my daily life. I did not know.
> > It is said that one's deepest and most intimate spiritual 
experiences
> > should never be discussed or related. This is fundamentally true 
and
> > no true "experiencer" is the least interested in such discussions.
> > The deeper and more vital the experience, the less temptation is
> > there to tell it. Only beginners with a theoretical, imaginative
> > event in their [41] consciousness claim such experiences. But with
> > deliberation I have related the two above subjective events (or 
was
> > the first subjective?) because it is time that people of standing 
and
> > who are recognized as sane and intelligent should add their 
testimony
> > to that of the frequently discredited mystic and occultist. I 
have a
> > good standing as an intelligent, normal woman, an effective 
executive
> > and creative writer and I choose to add my certain knowledge and
> > conviction to the witness of many others down the ages.
> > http://beaskund.helloyou.ws/netnews/bk/autobiography/auto1016.html
> >
> > Remember also what Master KH wrotes:
> >
> > ". . . let these unfortunate, deluded Christians know that the 
real
> > Christ of every Christian is the Vach, the "mystical Voice," while
> > the man Jeshu was but a mortal like any of us, an adept more by 
his
> > inherent purity and ignorance of real Evil, than by what he had
> > learned with his initiated Rabbis and the already (at that period)
> > fast degenerating Egyptian Hierophants and priests. . . . "
> >
> > The real Christ....is the Vach, the "mystical Voice"....
> > is no man, but the DIVINE PRINCIPLE in every human being."
> >
> > You don't need a television, car, boat or plane to
> > contact the real Christ.
> >
> > More than enough said.
> >
> > Daniel
> > http://hpb.cc
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >