Theos-Talk Archives (January 2004 Message tt00433)

And remember:

"Ape shall not kill Ape!"

thanx,
Haar Paar Kroot.

--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "krishtar" <krishtar_a@b...> wrote:
> Hi Christina
> I know it, I know it.
> Lower mind means the " thought producer", which creates the illusion 
associated with it.
> It is extremenly useful this exchange.
> Thanks
> 
> Krishtar
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: christinaleestemaker 
> To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
> Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2004 9:28 PM
> Subject: Theos-World Re: The mind murders the real
> 
> 
> Hallo Krishtar and Ariel ,
> For the second time I can say:
> It is not the MANAS what is the slayer of the MIND.IT IS THE LOWER 
> MANAS.The LOWER MANAS with the lower THINKING POwer the 
TATTVA of it.
> We must grow up to the HIGHER MANAS!!!!!!!!!!!
> From there we can activate the Buddhi, the higher plan on the 
> INTUITIVE to BUDDHI MANAS.
> Look in your books what the lower manas means! Desire,selfish Ego etc.
> Grow out of it!!!! Christina
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "krishtar" <krishtar_a@b...> wrote:
> > Hi Ariel
> > Still the same question:
> > The quote " The mind is the slayer of the real - H.P. Blavatsky, 
> the Voice of the Silence, p.1" doesnīt mean to destroy Manas, it is 
> a dead letter interpretation.
> > It means lowering the activity of our mind to perceive, to feel  
> the true Man, we cannot reach our true essence in the disturbance of 
> our day by day life.We must slow down, listen to our inner being.
> > Reducing the creation of thoughts, you can begin to perceive your 
> real being.
> > It is the Voice of silence!
> > There is no use in knowing so much intellectual knowledge if we do 
> not apply it, it will never turn intelectual knowledge into wisdom.
> > and wisdom is what matters, is what changes our inferior qualities.
> > Stop reading SD for awhile and go meditating :)
> > 
> > Krishtar
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: arielaretziel 
> > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
> > Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2004 2:32 PM
> > Subject: Theos-World Re: The mind murders the real
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Dear Katinka,
> > 
> > Keep thinking, your getting close. Actually, the Manas is the 
> gift of the S=
> > olar 
> > Pitris. It is what makes Man ... Man. The word comes from Manas, 
> Manu, etc.=
> >    
> > and it was the Elohim who worried that with this gift now Man 
> could be as t=
> > he 
> > Gods. 
> > 
> > According to HPB, Man can undo himself by severing his Manas from 
> his triad=
> >    
> > and therefore go to Avitchi, a hell of unconciousness. It takes 
> work to ach=
> > ieve 
> > this as the Manas is part and parcel of who we are and 
> differentiates us fr=
> > om 
> > the beasts. 
> > 
> > Through Manas, even though we are such small specks in the 
> immensity of 
> > the universe, we can conceptualize the vastness, higher 
> mathamatical 
> > dimensions, and even infinity. We can build entire geometirc 
> stuctures in o=
> > ur 
> > head and work out all the dynamics before we manifest it 
> physically in an 
> > architectural project. We are aware of far off galaxies and sub-
> atomic 
> > particles. This exists in a plane of the self called the Manas. 
> If we remov=
> > e it, 
> > we can be like a dog, forever happy and seeing the world as it 
> is. 
> > 
> > The Neo-Platonists would probably tell you that Mind is picking 
> up actual 
> > things that exist. These things actually do exist but are in a 
> higher frequ=
> > ency 
> > than matter and emotions. Matter is picked up by our senses, 
> ENERGY is 
> > picked up by our emotions, and THOUGHT FORMS are picked up by 
> Manas, 
> > not something illusionary but a real thing made of real 
> substance. 
> > 
> > There are all kinds of thought forms that exist in the plane of 
> manas. Ther=
> > e are 
> > the thought forms built from our association with our own Kama 
> Rupa or 
> > desire body. There are thought forms built up of Astral energy 
> that floats =
> > 
> > around the world, hence we sense a good atmosphere or a bad one. 
> There 
> > are thought forms that are the imprints of the Akashik Records. 
> There are 
> > thought forms that are abstract concepts that just float in Space 
> to be pic=
> > ked 
> > up and used by higher entities as they choose. This all requires 
> experience=
> > to 
> > test out what I am saying. But even a little experimaentation 
> produces it's=
> >    
> > results.
> > 
> > Understanding our projections and our pre-concieved notions 
> cannot be 
> > possible without an awareness of Thought-Forms, especially in the 
> Kama 
> > Rupa. Otherwise it leads to self deception and one goes to a 
> darker place. =
> > 
> > Manas is the "light" of Lucifer and the BRIDGE to Buddha 
> awareness. Atleast=
> >    
> > according to Theosophy. All I can say is experiment and find out 
> for yours=
> > elf.
> > 
> > There is another word that is also translated as Mind, but has a 
> completely=
> >    
> > different meaning. This word is Chittas. It differs from Manas. 
> It is the "=
> > ether" of 
> > the astral realm that vibrates. It is usually filled with Vrittis 
> which hav=
> > e been 
> > translated as "thoughts" but really means "disturbances" 
> or "pertibations".=
> >    
> > Sometimes Vrittis are translated as Mind Stuff but this is 
> incorrect. This =
> > is 
> > Astral. Our strongest Senses of experience is found in the 
> Chittas and if w=
> > e 
> > control it and still the waters so to speak, Than the Manas can 
> listen to t=
> > he 
> > voice from above, in the Buddhic plane. "As above, so below" 
> except in a le=
> > ss 
> > perfect fasion, as we pick up the voice from above often yet it 
> gets distur=
> > bed 
> > by astral waters and comes to us as if by code, in analogy. 
> > 
> > This is all I'll write for now, but I hope it helps some of you 
> in undrstan=
> > ding 
> > 
> > A^A^
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Katinka Hesselink" 
> <k.hesselink@h...> 
> > wrote:
> > > The mind is the slayer of the real - H.P. Blavatsky, the Voice 
> of the
> > > Silence, p.1. 
> > > 
> > > I think the meaning of this sentence isn't that difficult. It 
> simply
> > > means that our thoughts are by definition partial and usually
> > > conditioned, so that if you take them for the real, you are 
> mistaken.
> > > The only path to seeing things (and people) as they are is in 
> letting
> > > go of preconceptions and simply seeing what is. This is a simple
> > > psychological fact. I agree that one can't just throw out the 
> manas.
> > > We need manas to figure a lot of issues out. Still it is useful 
> to be
> > > reminded that as a tool to finding the Ultimate Truth - it 
> doesn't
> > > work so well. 
> > > 
> > > I think I read somewhere in Blavatsky that one of the perks she 
> though
> > > t reading the Secret Doctrine would have was simply that it 
> would keep
> > > people busy enough to stay out of trouble. I am not saying that 
> book
> > > isn't useful and interesting. But ultimately it is meant to 
> wake up
> > > our intuition - not stimulate our manas. 
> > > 
> > > Katinka
> > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "krishtar" <krishtar_a@b...> 
> wrote:
> > > > The "quote" does not come from the Stanzas of Dyzan, it's 
> from The
> > > Voice in
> > > >  
> > > > the Silence. And unfortunately, unlike the Stanzas, we don't 
> have
> > > the good =
> > > > 
> > > > fortune to have HPB's commentary for this ancient book, so 
> anyone's
> > > guess 
> > > > on this line is as good as any other. Of course, if you 
> succesfully
> > > slay y=
> > > > our 
> > > > Manas, you will be rewarded with Avitchi. Good luck,
> > > > 
> > > > Ariel
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "krishtar" 
> <krishtar_a@b...> wrote:
> > > > > Ariel
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > I am sorry that my discussion is irrelevant and a gossip 
> for you.
> > > > > But I donīt wish to be framed in one type or another.
> > > > > I study theosophy but I donīt consider anything in it a 
> Dogma.
> > > > > If you belong to the " first group" you can recall 
> that:the "
> > > mind is th=
> > > > e true 
> > > > murderer of the Real.." ( Dzyan Stanzas )
> > > > > It means that everything we catch through our physical 
> sences -
> > > the mind =
> > > > -  
> > > > is not the reality.
> > > > > In this plane we do not see things as they are, but how 
> they look
> > > like.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Krishtar
> > 
> > 
> >    
> > 
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> > 
> > 
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