Theos-Talk Archives (January 2004 Message tt00429)

Hi Ariel
Interesting what you said.
Some years ago I was wondering if the act of knowing a theosophical subjectby means of a lecture or a book, for example, can be of any help for us, rather than the simple knowledge by itself, and got to the conclusion that something quite deeper is necessary, so many choose the meditation as an important technique to put ourselves in " contact " with superior levels of our conscience, not a conscience projection or astral trip.
And I confess I am still searching.
Nowadays it is quite hard to find a good teacher on meditation, sometimes it can create misunderstanding, a distorted idea of it because of a feable teacher.
I hope it didnīt happen to you.
By this list we can only collect more and more info, exchange views, get some penpals, but it has its big limitations.
We donīt even know if the one who is answering a message is male or female, not even his life or real name...
About Adyar:
How is the actual atmosphere in Adyar?
Is it perceiving that the vibrational qualities of this place helps meditation?
I once read that the place had a special " magnetic qualities" .
It must be very interesting to stay over there and wonder that HPB and "giants" of Theosophical movements stayed in this headquarter.

Krishtar
----- Original Message ----- 
From: arielaretziel 
To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2004 4:18 PM
Subject: Theos-World Re: The mind murders the real



Hello Krishtar,

There are many people who actually experience the things put forth in SD, =

through meditation and experimentation. Which is also what I have done with=
   
a group in Adyar. All I can say is try it (what I have written below) or do=
n't try it 
and just accept your pre-conditioned thoughts. It's up to you. Some people=
   
PROJECT unconciousley and some peope do so with awareness. The 
TRUTH is in experiencing, not intellectualizing, which is what I have outli=
ned 
for those who wish. If not, I'll keep silent about the rest...

--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "krishtar" <krishtar_a@b...> wrote:
> Hi Ariel
> Still the same question:
> The quote " The mind is the slayer of the real - H.P. Blavatsky, the Voic=
e of 
the Silence, p.1" doesnīt mean to destroy Manas, it is a dead letter 
interpretation.
> It means lowering the activity of our mind to perceive, to feel the true=
Man, 
we cannot reach our true essence in the disturbance of our day by day life.=
We 
must slow down, listen to our inner being.
> Reducing the creation of thoughts, you can begin to perceive your real 
being.
> It is the Voice of silence!
> There is no use in knowing so much intellectual knowledge if we do not 
apply it, it will never turn intelectual knowledge into wisdom.
> and wisdom is what matters, is what changes our inferior qualities.
> Stop reading SD for awhile and go meditating :)
> 
> Krishtar
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: arielaretziel 
> To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
> Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2004 2:32 PM
> Subject: Theos-World Re: The mind murders the real
> 
> 
> 
> Dear Katinka,
> 
> Keep thinking, your getting close. Actually, the Manas is the gift oft=
he S=
> olar 
> Pitris. It is what makes Man ... Man. The word comes from Manas, Manu, =

etc.=
>    
> and it was the Elohim who worried that with this gift now Man could be =
as 
t=
> he 
> Gods. 
> 
> According to HPB, Man can undo himself by severing his Manas from his 
triad=
>    
> and therefore go to Avitchi, a hell of unconciousness. It takes work to=
ach=
> ieve 
> this as the Manas is part and parcel of who we are and differentiatesu=
s fr=
> om 
> the beasts. 
> 
> Through Manas, even though we are such small specks in the immensity 
of 
> the universe, we can conceptualize the vastness, higher mathamatical 
> dimensions, and even infinity. We can build entire geometirc stuctures =
in 
o=
> ur 
> head and work out all the dynamics before we manifest it physically in =
an 
> architectural project. We are aware of far off galaxies and sub-atomic =

> particles. This exists in a plane of the self called the Manas. If wer=
emov=
> e it, 
> we can be like a dog, forever happy and seeing the world as it is. 
> 
> The Neo-Platonists would probably tell you that Mind is picking up actu=
al 
> things that exist. These things actually do exist but are in a higherf=
requ=
> ency 
> than matter and emotions. Matter is picked up by our senses, ENERGY is =

> picked up by our emotions, and THOUGHT FORMS are picked up by 
Manas, 
> not something illusionary but a real thing made of real substance. 
> 
> There are all kinds of thought forms that exist in the plane of manas. =
Ther=
> e are 
> the thought forms built from our association with our own Kama Rupa or =

> desire body. There are thought forms built up of Astral energy that flo=
ats =
> 
> around the world, hence we sense a good atmosphere or a bad one. 
There 
> are thought forms that are the imprints of the Akashik Records. Therea=
re 
> thought forms that are abstract concepts that just float in Space to be=
pic=
> ked 
> up and used by higher entities as they choose. This all requires 
experience=
> to 
> test out what I am saying. But even a little experimaentation produces =
it's=
>    
> results.
> 
> Understanding our projections and our pre-concieved notions cannot be 
> possible without an awareness of Thought-Forms, especially in the Kama =

> Rupa. Otherwise it leads to self deception and one goes to a darker pla=
ce. 
=
> 
> Manas is the "light" of Lucifer and the BRIDGE to Buddha awareness. 
Atleast=
>    
> according to Theosophy. All I can say is experiment and find out fory=
ours=
> elf.
> 
> There is another word that is also translated as Mind, but has a 
completely=
>    
> different meaning. This word is Chittas. It differs from Manas. It ist=
he "=
> ether" of 
> the astral realm that vibrates. It is usually filled with Vrittis which=
hav=
> e been 
> translated as "thoughts" but really means "disturbances" or "pertibatio=
ns".=
>    
> Sometimes Vrittis are translated as Mind Stuff but this is incorrect.T=
his =
> is 
> Astral. Our strongest Senses of experience is found in the Chittas and =
if w=
> e 
> control it and still the waters so to speak, Than the Manas can listen =
to t=
> he 
> voice from above, in the Buddhic plane. "As above, so below" except in =
a 
le=
> ss 
> perfect fasion, as we pick up the voice from above often yet it gets di=
stur=
> bed 
> by astral waters and comes to us as if by code, in analogy. 
> 
> This is all I'll write for now, but I hope it helps some of you in undr=
stan=
> ding 
> 
> A^A^
> 
> 
> 
> --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Katinka Hesselink" <
k.hesselink@h...> 
> wrote:
> > The mind is the slayer of the real - H.P. Blavatsky, the Voice of the=

> > Silence, p.1. 
> > 
> > I think the meaning of this sentence isn't that difficult. It simply
> > means that our thoughts are by definition partial and usually
> > conditioned, so that if you take them for the real, you are mistaken.=

> > The only path to seeing things (and people) as they are is in letting=

> > go of preconceptions and simply seeing what is. This is a simple
> > psychological fact. I agree that one can't just throw out the manas.
> > We need manas to figure a lot of issues out. Still it is useful to be=

> > reminded that as a tool to finding the Ultimate Truth - it doesn't
> > work so well. 
> > 
> > I think I read somewhere in Blavatsky that one of the perks she thoug=
h
> > t reading the Secret Doctrine would have was simply that it would kee=
p
> > people busy enough to stay out of trouble. I am not saying that book
> > isn't useful and interesting. But ultimately it is meant to wake up
> > our intuition - not stimulate our manas. 
> > 
> > Katinka
> > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "krishtar" <krishtar_a@b...> wrote=
:
> > > The "quote" does not come from the Stanzas of Dyzan, it's from The
> > Voice in
> > >  
> > > the Silence. And unfortunately, unlike the Stanzas, we don't have
> > the good =
> > > 
> > > fortune to have HPB's commentary for this ancient book, so anyone's=

> > guess 
> > > on this line is as good as any other. Of course, if you succesfull=
y
> > slay y=
> > > our 
> > > Manas, you will be rewarded with Avitchi. Good luck,
> > > 
> > > Ariel
> > > 
> > > 
> > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "krishtar" <krishtar_a@b...> wro=
te:
> > > > Ariel
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > I am sorry that my discussion is irrelevant and a gossip for you.=

> > > > But I donīt wish to be framed in one type or another.
> > > > I study theosophy but I donīt consider anything in it a Dogma.
> > > > If you belong to the " first group" you can recall that:the "
> > mind is th=
> > > e true 
> > > murderer of the Real.." ( Dzyan Stanzas )
> > > > It means that everything we catch through our physical sences -
> > the mind =
> > > -  
> > > is not the reality.
> > > > In this plane we do not see things as they are, but how they look=

> > like.
> > > > 
> > > > Krishtar
> 
> 
>    
> 
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> 
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