Theos-Talk Archives (January 2004 Message tt00430)

Well nothing has changed much at Adyar except for the Great Banyan Tree 
which was destroyed by lightening some twenty years ago. Some see it as a 
message that the center of the Theosophical movement has finally been 
destroyed and all that's left are the various shoots and roots of smaller t=
rees 
that will eventually grow to thier own. This hasn't yet stopped people from=
 
getting messages from you know who. 

Other than that, sychronicity and coincidense may be your guide. Many 
people come to Adyar and find nothing speciel and some people focus on the =

historical importance. You recieve what you have tuned yourself to recieve.=
 
Like a radio, thought forms that you build up now create the machine that w=
ill 
experience our world after crystalization. Many people fall into the righ=
t 
groups in what appears to be a series of accidents. And many people just dr=
ift 
on by like the river of time.

A^A^

--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "krishtar" <krishtar_a@b...> wrote:
> Hi Ariel
> Interesting what you said.
> Some years ago I was wondering if the act of knowing a theosophical 
subject by means of a lecture or a book, for example, can be of any help fo=
r 
us, rather than the simple knowledge by itself, and got to the conclusion t=
hat 
something quite deeper is necessary, so many choose the meditation as an 
important technique to put ourselves in " contact " with superior levels o=
f our 
conscience, not a conscience projection or astral trip.
> And I confess I am still searching.
> Nowadays it is quite hard to find a good teacher on meditation, sometimes=
it 
can create misunderstanding, a distorted idea of it because of a feable 
teacher.
> I hope it didnīt happen to you.
> By this list we can only collect more and more info, exchange views, get =

some penpals, but it has its big limitations.
> We donīt even know if the one who is answering a message is male or 
female, not even his life or real name...
> About Adyar:
> How is the actual atmosphere in Adyar?
> Is it perceiving that the vibrational qualities of this place helps medit=
ation?
> I once read that the place had a special " magnetic qualities" .
> It must be very interesting to stay over there and wonder that HPB and 
"giants" of Theosophical movements stayed in this headquarter.
> 
> Krishtar
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: arielaretziel 
> To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
> Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2004 4:18 PM
> Subject: Theos-World Re: The mind murders the real
> 
> 
> 
> Hello Krishtar,
> 
> There are many people who actually experience the things put forth in =
SD, 
=
> 
> through meditation and experimentation. Which is also what I have done =

with=
>    
> a group in Adyar. All I can say is try it (what I have written below) o=
r do=
> n't try it 
> and just accept your pre-conditioned thoughts. It's up to you. Some 
people=
>    
> PROJECT unconciousley and some peope do so with awareness. The 
> TRUTH is in experiencing, not intellectualizing, which is what I have o=
utli=
> ned 
> for those who wish. If not, I'll keep silent about the rest...
> 
> --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "krishtar" <krishtar_a@b...> wrote:
> > Hi Ariel
> > Still the same question:
> > The quote " The mind is the slayer of the real - H.P. Blavatsky, the =
Voic=
> e of 
> the Silence, p.1" doesnīt mean to destroy Manas, it is a dead letter 
> interpretation.
> > It means lowering the activity of our mind to perceive, to feel the =
true=
> Man, 
> we cannot reach our true essence in the disturbance of our day by day 
life.=
> We 
> must slow down, listen to our inner being.
> > Reducing the creation of thoughts, you can begin to perceive your rea=
l 
> being.
> > It is the Voice of silence!
> > There is no use in knowing so much intellectual knowledge if we do no=
t 
> apply it, it will never turn intelectual knowledge into wisdom.
> > and wisdom is what matters, is what changes our inferior qualities.
> > Stop reading SD for awhile and go meditating :)
> > 
> > Krishtar
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: arielaretziel 
> > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
> > Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2004 2:32 PM
> > Subject: Theos-World Re: The mind murders the real
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Dear Katinka,
> > 
> > Keep thinking, your getting close. Actually, the Manas is the gift =
of t=
> he S=
> > olar 
> > Pitris. It is what makes Man ... Man. The word comes from Manas, Ma=
nu, 
=
> 
> etc.=
> >    
> > and it was the Elohim who worried that with this gift now Man could=
be =
> as 
> t=
> > he 
> > Gods. 
> > 
> > According to HPB, Man can undo himself by severing his Manas from 
his 
> triad=
> >    
> > and therefore go to Avitchi, a hell of unconciousness. It takes wor=
k to=
> ach=
> > ieve 
> > this as the Manas is part and parcel of who we are and differentiat=
es u=
> s fr=
> > om 
> > the beasts. 
> > 
> > Through Manas, even though we are such small specks in the 
immensity 
> of 
> > the universe, we can conceptualize the vastness, higher mathamatica=
l 
> > dimensions, and even infinity. We can build entire geometirc stuctu=
res =
> in 
> o=
> > ur 
> > head and work out all the dynamics before we manifest it physically=
in =
> an 
> > architectural project. We are aware of far off galaxies and sub-ato=
mic =
> 
> > particles. This exists in a plane of the self called the Manas. If =
we r=
> emov=
> > e it, 
> > we can be like a dog, forever happy and seeing the world as it is. =

> > 
> > The Neo-Platonists would probably tell you that Mind is picking up =

actu=
> al 
> > things that exist. These things actually do exist but are in a high=
er f=
> requ=
> > ency 
> > than matter and emotions. Matter is picked up by our senses, ENERGY=
 
is =
> 
> > picked up by our emotions, and THOUGHT FORMS are picked up by 
> Manas, 
> > not something illusionary but a real thing made of real substance. =

> > 
> > There are all kinds of thought forms that exist in the plane of man=
as. =
> Ther=
> > e are 
> > the thought forms built from our association with our own Kama Rupa=
or 
=
> 
> > desire body. There are thought forms built up of Astral energy that=
flo=
> ats =
> > 
> > around the world, hence we sense a good atmosphere or a bad one. 
> There 
> > are thought forms that are the imprints of the Akashik Records. The=
re a=
> re 
> > thought forms that are abstract concepts that just float in Space t=
o be=
> pic=
> > ked 
> > up and used by higher entities as they choose. This all requires 
> experience=
> > to 
> > test out what I am saying. But even a little experimaentation produ=
ces =
> it's=
> >    
> > results.
> > 
> > Understanding our projections and our pre-concieved notions cannot =

be 
> > possible without an awareness of Thought-Forms, especially in the 
Kama =
> 
> > Rupa. Otherwise it leads to self deception and one goes to a darker=
 
pla=
> ce. 
> =
> > 
> > Manas is the "light" of Lucifer and the BRIDGE to Buddha awareness.=
 
> Atleast=
> >    
> > according to Theosophy. All I can say is experiment and find out f=
or y=
> ours=
> > elf.
> > 
> > There is another word that is also translated as Mind, but has a 
> completely=
> >    
> > different meaning. This word is Chittas. It differs from Manas. It =
is t=
> he "=
> > ether" of 
> > the astral realm that vibrates. It is usually filled with Vrittis w=
hich=
> hav=
> > e been 
> > translated as "thoughts" but really means "disturbances" or "pertib=
atio=
> ns".=
> >    
> > Sometimes Vrittis are translated as Mind Stuff but this is incorrec=
t. T=
> his =
> > is 
> > Astral. Our strongest Senses of experience is found in the Chittas =
and =
> if w=
> > e 
> > control it and still the waters so to speak, Than the Manas can lis=
ten =
> to t=
> > he 
> > voice from above, in the Buddhic plane. "As above, so below" except=
in 
=
> a 
> le=
> > ss 
> > perfect fasion, as we pick up the voice from above often yet it get=
s di=
> stur=
> > bed 
> > by astral waters and comes to us as if by code, in analogy. 
> > 
> > This is all I'll write for now, but I hope it helps some of you in =
undr=
> stan=
> > ding 
> > 
> > A^A^
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Katinka Hesselink" <
> k.hesselink@h...> 
> > wrote:
> > > The mind is the slayer of the real - H.P. Blavatsky, the Voice of=
the=
> 
> > > Silence, p.1. 
> > > 
> > > I think the meaning of this sentence isn't that difficult. It sim=
ply
> > > means that our thoughts are by definition partial and usually
> > > conditioned, so that if you take them for the real, you are mista=
ken.=
> 
> > > The only path to seeing things (and people) as they are is in let=
ting=
> 
> > > go of preconceptions and simply seeing what is. This is a simple
> > > psychological fact. I agree that one can't just throw out the man=
as.
> > > We need manas to figure a lot of issues out. Still it is useful t=
o be=
> 
> > > reminded that as a tool to finding the Ultimate Truth - it doesn'=
t
> > > work so well. 
> > > 
> > > I think I read somewhere in Blavatsky that one of the perks she t=
houg=
> h
> > > t reading the Secret Doctrine would have was simply that it would=
 
kee=
> p
> > > people busy enough to stay out of trouble. I am not saying that b=
ook
> > > isn't useful and interesting. But ultimately it is meant to wake =
up
> > > our intuition - not stimulate our manas. 
> > > 
> > > Katinka
> > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "krishtar" <krishtar_a@b...> 
wrote=
> :
> > > > The "quote" does not come from the Stanzas of Dyzan, it's from =
The
> > > Voice in
> > > >  
> > > > the Silence. And unfortunately, unlike the Stanzas, we don't ha=
ve
> > > the good =
> > > > 
> > > > fortune to have HPB's commentary for this ancient book, so 
anyone's=
> 
> > > guess 
> > > > on this line is as good as any other. Of course, if you succes=
full=
> y
> > > slay y=
> > > > our 
> > > > Manas, you will be rewarded with Avitchi. Good luck,
> > > > 
> > > > Ariel
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "krishtar" <krishtar_a@b...>=
 
wro=
> te:
> > > > > Ariel
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > I am sorry that my discussion is irrelevant and a gossip for =
you.=
> 
> > > > > But I donīt wish to be framed in one type or another.
> > > > > I study theosophy but I donīt consider anything in it a Dogma=
.
> > > > > If you belong to the " first group" you can recall that:the =
"
> > > mind is th=
> > > > e true 
> > > > murderer of the Real.." ( Dzyan Stanzas )
> > > > > It means that everything we catch through our physical sences=
-
> > > the mind =
> > > > -  
> > > > is not the reality.
> > > > > In this plane we do not see things as they are, but how they =
look=
> 
> > > like.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Krishtar
> > 
> > 
> >    
> > 
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> > 
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> > 
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> > 
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> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
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> 
> 
>    
> 
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> 
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> 
> 
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