Theos-Talk Archives (January 2004 Message tt00201)

Jan 14 2004

Re:	Talking with the Dead -- Theosophical principles


Dear Friends and M:

As I understand it these exchanges are for the study and discovery of
the Theosophical philosophy.

You ask if any one is aware of the tenets of THEOSOPHY. The purpose of
sending in an essay or a description is to inform. Readers may then
make what use they desire of the information.

I would advise a reading of the OCEAN OF THEOSOPHY as it gives a
detailed account and is short, being about 180 pages long. It is
synopsis of the SECRET DOCTRINE and also embodies may of the statements
and explanations that HPB gives so extensively in the KEY TO THEOSOPHY .

These are available on www.Blavatsky.net for reading or
downloading.

No one is asked to "believe."

Best wishes,

Dallas

============================

The following may prove useful for further consideration:





 
THE APPLICATION OF THEOSOPHICAL THEORIES
The mistake is being made by a great many persons, among them being
Theosophists, of applying several of the doctrines current in
Theosophical literature, to only one or two phases of a question or to
only one thing at a time, limiting rules which have universal
application to a few cases, when in fact all those doctrines which have
been current in the East for so long a time should be universally
applied. For instance, take the law of Karma. Some people say, "yes, we
believe in that," but they only apply it to human beings. They consider
it only in its relation to their own acts or to the acts of all men.
Sometimes they fail to see that it has its effect not only on themselves
and their fellows, but as well on the greatest of Mahatmas. Those great
Beings are not exempt from it; in fact they are, so to say, more bound
by it than we are. Although they are said to be above Karma, this is
only to be taken to mean that, having escaped from the wheel of Samsara
(which means the wheel of life and death, or rebirths), and in that
sense are above Karma, at the same time we will find them often unable
to act in a given case. Why? If they have transcended Karma, how can it
be possible that in any instance they may not break the law, or perform
certain acts which to us seem to be proper at just that juncture? Why
can they not, say in the case of a chela who has worked for them and for
the cause, for years with the most exalted unselfishness, interfere and
save him from suddenly falling or being overwhelmed by horrible
misfortune; or interfere to help or direct a movement? It is because
they have become part of the great law of Karma itself. It would be
impossible for them to lift a finger.
Again, we know that at a certain period of progress, far above this
sublunary world, the adept reaches a point when he may, if he so
chooses, formulate a wish that he might be one of the Devas, one of that
bright host of beings of whose pleasure, glory and power we can have no
idea. The mere formulation of the wish is enough. At that moment he
becomes one of the Devas. He then for a period of time which in its
extent is incalculable, enjoys that condition--then what? Then he has to
begin again low down in the scale, in a mode and for a purpose which it
would be useless to detail here, because it could not be understood, and
also because I am not able to put it in any language with which I am
conversant. In this, then, is not this particular adept who thus fell,
subject to the law of Karma?
There is in the Hindoo books a pretty story which illustrates this. A
certain man heard that every day a most beautiful woman rose up out of
the sea, and combed her hair. He resolved that he would go to see her.
He went, and she rose up as usual. He sprang into the sea behind her,
and with her went down to her abode. There he lived with her for a vast
length of time. One day she said she had to go away and stated that he
must not touch a picture which was on the wall, and then departed. In a
few days, fired by curiosity, he went to look at the picture; saw that
it was an enameled one of a most ravishingly beautiful person, and he
put out his hand to touch it. At that moment the foot of the figure
suddenly enlarged, flew out from the frame, and sent him back to the
scenes of earth, where he met with only sorrow and trouble.
The law of Karma must be applied to everything. Nothing is exempt from
it. It rules the vital molecule from plant up to Brahma himself. Apply
it then to the vegetable, animal and human kingdom alike.
Another law is that of Reincarnation. This is not to be confined only to
the souls and bodies of men. Why not use it for every branch of nature
to which it may be applicable? Not only are we, men and women,
reincarnated; but also every molecule of which our bodies are composed.
In what way, then, can we connect this rule with all of our thoughts?
Does it apply there? It seems to me that it does, and with as much force
as anywhere. Each thought is of definite length. It does not last for
over what we may call an instant, but the time of its duration is in
fact much shorter. It springs into life and then it dies; but it is at
once reborn in the form of another thought. And thus the process goes on
from moment to moment, from hour to hour, from day to day. And each one
of these reincarnated thoughts lives its life, some good, some bad, some
so terrible in their nature that if we could see them we would shrink
back in affright. Further than that, a number of these thoughts form
themselves into a certain idea, and it dies to be reincarnated in its
time. Thus on rolls this vast flood. Will it overwhelm us? It may; it
often does. Let us then make our thoughts pure. Our thoughts are the
matrix, the mine, the fountain, the source of all that we are and of all
that we may be.

WILLIAM Q. JUDGE
The Occult Word, May, 1886


=================================================

-----Original Message-----
From: Morten Nymann Olesen [mailto:global-theosophy@adslhome.dk] 
Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 3:21 PM
To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: Theos-World RE: Talking with the dead -

Hallo Dallas and all of you,

My views are:

Can we expect people, who are not aware of the below issues in your
email,
to understand these theosophical views and even beliefs
or what you call parts of knowledge as if you had them in your own
possesion
?

What do the average theosophist really know about reincarnation ?
Not much I am afraid !

How many theosophists are aware of and have a clear cut knowledge the
reality of 7 planes ?
How many of you have been on the highest level - the atmic ?
How many of the average theosophist has actually tried to die ?
Not many I am afraid !

So why should they - just simply believe what you almost as a priest
present
to them in the below ?
Shouldn't they use their reason instead ?


Yes. I know.
It is easy to ask questions.
But, sometimes it is good to contemplate these questions. Also sometimes
before emailing.

(I have cut your - very very long email - so to be polite towards those
with
a slow connection.)


from
M. Sufilight with peace and love...

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dallas TenBroeck" <dalval14@earthlink.net>
To: "AA-BN--Study" <study@blavatsky.net>
Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 9:09 PM
Subject: Theos-World RE: Talking with the dead -


> Jan 14 2004
>
> Dear Friends:
>
> This may help,
>
> Dallas
>
> ==========================
>
>
>
> STATES AFTER DEATH
>
>
> SOUL IS IMMORTAL -- MIND
>
>
> EVOLUTION THROUGH REINCARNATION
>

>
> STATES AFTER DEATH AND RELEVANT PRINCIPLES

> SEVEN-FOLD CLASSIFICATION OF PRINCIPLES -- A BASIC
>
> Theosophy places the old doctrine before western civilization
>
> 1. 1. The Body, or Rupa.
> 2. 2. Vitality, or Prana-Jiva.
> 3. 3. Astral Body, or Linga-Sarira.
> 4. 4. Animal Soul, or Kama-Rupa
> 5. 5. Human Soul, or Manas.
> 6. 6. Spiritual Soul, or Buddhi.
> 7. 7. Spirit, or Atma, (This Principle synthesizes the
> other 6.)
>
>
>
> REAL MAN:
>
>
> LOWER VEHICLES:
>
> DEATH MARKS THE SEPARATION OF THE LOWER VEHICLE
>
> KAMA - DESIRE & PASSION ARE NOT MIND
>
>
> A "GOOD" MAN
>
>
>
> A "BAD" MAN
>
>
>
> MIND -- THE 5th PRINCIPLE, AND ATMA-BUDDHI [THE MONAD]
>
>
> THE LIGHTING UP OF MANAS
>
> Going back for a moment to the time when the races of mankind were
> devoid of mind, the question arises, "Who gave the MIND, Where did it
> come from, and What is it ?"
>
> It is the link between ATMA, the "Spirit of God above" and the
> "personality" below. It was given to the mindless monads by others
who
> had gone through this process ages upon ages before in earlier worlds
> and systems of worlds, and it came from other evolutionary periods
which
> were completed long before our solar system had begun. The manner in
> which this light of mind was given to the Mindless Men can be
understood
> from the illustration of one candle lighting many. The Sons of Wisdom,
> who are the Elder Brothers of every family of men on any Globe, have
the
> light, derived by them from others who reach back, and yet farther
back,
> in endless procession with no beginning or end. They set fire to the
> combined lower principles and the Monad, thus lighting up Manas in the
> "new men" and preparing another great race for final initiation.
>
>
> MANAS [MIND] REINCARNATES
>
>
> LOWER MANS -- BRAIN-MIND
>
MEMORY AS A DEATH VISION
>
> Memory of a prior life is not needed to prove that we passed through
> that existence, nor is the fact of not remembering a good objection.
We
> forget the greater part of the occurrences of the years and days of
this
> life, but no one would say for that reason we did not go through these
> years. We are all subject to the limitations imposed upon the Ego by
> the new brain in each life. This is why we are not able to keep the
> pictures of the past. The brain is the instrument for the memory of
the
> soul, and, being new in each life, has only a certain capacity. That
> capacity will be fully availed of just according to the Ego's own
desire
> and prior conduct, because past living will have increased or
diminished
> its power.
>
> By living according to the dictates of the Soul, the brain may at
least
> be made porous to the Soul's recollections; as the brain-matter had no
> part in the life last lived, it is in general unable to remember. And
> this is a wise law, for we should be very miserable if the deeds of
our
> former lives were not hidden from our view until by discipline we
become
> able to bear a knowledge of them.
>
>
>
> HIGHER MANAS -- INTUITION, GENIUS.
>
> THE "GOD" IN MAN = ATMA - BUDDHI - MANAS
>
> INDIVIDUALITY IS PERMANENT -- IMMORTAL
>
>
> MATTER -- ALSO PERMANENT -- HAS BEEN THROUGH ALL FORMS
>
>
> PERFECTION FOR ALL ASPECTS OF MAN
>
>
> MEMORY AS A DEATH VISION
>
>
> UNIVERSAL LAWS AND REINCARNATION
>
>
> AFTER DEATH STATES - CHRONOLOGY
>
>
> DESIRES -- HAVE THEIR OWN PLACE
>
>
> DEVACHAN
>
> Struggling out of the body Atma-Buddhi-Manas, begins to think in a
> manner different from that which the body and brain permitted in life.
> This is the state of Devachan, Sanskrit : "the place of the gods."
The
> Self in Devachan is devoid of a mortal body. The stay in Devachan is
> proportionate to the merit earned by the being in its last life [from
a
> few year to as much as 100 centuries -- the average being about 1500
> years] and when the mental forces peculiar to the state are exhausted,
> "the being is drawn down again to be reborn in the world of mortals."
>
> Devachan is therefore an interlude between births in the world. The
law
> of karma which forces us all to enter the world, being ceaseless in
its
> operation and also universal in scope, acts also on the being in
> devachan, for only by the force or operation of Karma are we taken out
> of devachan.
>
> The last series of powerful and deeply imprinted thoughts are those
> which give color and trend to the whole life in devachan. The last
> moment will color each subsequent moment. On those the soul and mind
fix
> themselves and weave of them a whole set of events and experiences,
> expanding them to their highest limit, carrying out all that was not
> possible in life.
>
>
> WHY DEVACHAN ?
>
> The necessity for this state after death is one of the necessities of
> evolution growing out of the nature of Mind and Soul. The very nature
of
> manas requires a devachanic state as soon as the body is lost, and it
is
> simply the effect of loosening the bonds placed upon the mind by its
> physical and astral encasement. In life we can but to a fractional
> extent act out the thoughts we have each moment; and still less can we
> exhaust the psychic energies engendered by each day's aspirations and
> dreams. The energy thus engendered is not lost or annihilated, but is
> stored in Manas, but the body, brain, and astral body permit no full
> development of the force. Hence, held latent until death, it bursts
then
> from the weakened bonds and plunges Manas, the thinker, into the
> expansion, use, and development of the thought-force set up in life.
>
>
> (extracts from The OCEAN OF THEOSOPHY (Judge)
>
> ===========================
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Morten
> Subject: Talking with the dead - the Scole experiment in England
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>


 

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