Theos-Talk Archives (December 2003 Message tt00115)

You are absolutely on the ball! This is the reason for the objective of stu=
dying 
comparitive religion and philosophy as stated in the TS. In the Secret 
Doctrine, we are being given a hyper-language to understand the various 
languages of the mystics. It does not mean that this hyper-language is 

engraved in stone (HPB changes it and modifies it to be more precise) but 
that if one studies the language
system as given by Theosophy, one no longer sees differences in various 
spiritual paths but find the key that unites them all and brings greater 
understanding and reason to their study.

I was quite the pessimest when I first studied SD and had all kinds of 
prejudice and pre-conceptions from a superficial study of Neo-Theosophy 
and being completely immersed in the teachings of J. Krishnamurti whom I 
could never come out of and even today thank for much understanding. But 
now I realize how limited and dated is the teaching of JK, not as deep as I=
 
thought. 

I read Idries Shah's book, The Sufis 15 years ago and was very much 
influenced by it, it being the beginning of me moving away from JK. I start=
ed 
studying SD with the purpose of looking for errors in it. I thought the who=
le 
work should be refuted. Instead, I find myself very critical of JK and in 
complete awe of SD. 

Such are the change in ones life,

A.A.



--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Morten Nymann Olesen" <global-
theosophy@a...> wrote:
> Hallo everyone,
> 
> My views are:
> 
> Yes.
> You wrote:
> "What is remarkable is that SD talks about things that were totally
> ridiculo=
> us in
> the 19th century"...
> 
> I agree.
> And when someone today dares to make a quality book or two, which 
doesn't
> follow any known - cult or new age teaching or TS very own vocabulary - 
they
> are immediately dismissed by the different TS leaders as not being valid =
-
> even if the quality is obvious and clear.
> Is it not so - that too many TS leaders clings too very much to a
> dead-letter theosophical terminology ?
> What should one do about that ?
> Make a loud protest like HPB did in her days ?
> 
> Who is helping who ?
> 
> from
> M. Sufilight with peace and love...
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "arielaretziel" <arielaretziel@y...>
> To: <theos-talk@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Monday, December 08, 2003 7:45 PM
> Subject: Re: Theos-World RE: Theosophy and TIME Physical Phenomena 
at a
> Seance (3 of 3)
> 
> 
> 
> Everyone who reads HPB know that she does not claim to be the last word
> but rather an imperfect messenger of the Masters. She did not start a
> Blavatsky Foundation and say all other writtngs on spirituality should be=

> thrown in the waste basket. She did not make herself head of the
> Theosophical Society and all members were given freedom to accept
> whatever they want. As knowledge is to be explored inside each one of us.=

> 
> What is remarkable is that SD talks about things that were totally ridicu=
lo=
> us in
> the 19th century, for instance, that continants on earth have moved and 
wer=
> e
> in different locations on the globe. The theory of continental drift was =
no=
> t taken
> seriously until the 20th century. At the time it was a laughable premise.=

> 
> Or how about the the idea of the Pole shifts, that every 100,000 years or=
s=
> o
> the magnetic feild goes through a drastic change and the North Pole moves=

> South and the South Pole moves North. And this causes major 
catastrophies
> on the earth. This was one of those things that was so bizarre, many
> theosophist chose to ignore it and it seemed like an embarrasment to even=

> mention such an out of this world hypothesis.
> 
> And yet, in the 1990's, it was discovered to be TRUE! Modern equipment 
and =
> 
> the study of volcanic islands show that the poles do shift every 100,.000=
ye=
> ars
> or so.
> 
> I could go on and on, from biology to atomic theory to the science of out=
er=
> 
> space, but I'm sure some responsible Theosophist will write a bestselling=

> book on the subject , atleast that's my hope. And HPB did not write all t=
hi=
> s in
> Parable (she was interpreting Parables in the light of wisdon and science=
) =
> 
> therefore it's not a matter of interpretation, just simply reading her ar=
gu=
> ement.
> 
> Besides that, perhaps your right about her errors on mediumship and
> seances, as there are many New Age books as well as Alice Bailey who
> contradict her. I'm simply talking about the fallable world of science.
> 
> 
> --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Dallas TenBroeck" <dalval14@e...>
> wrote:
> > Dec 8 2003
> >
> > Dear Dennis:
> >
> > Let me place some answers/queries in the text of yours (below)
> >
> > Dal
> >
> > ===================================
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Dennis Kier [mailto:dennw3k@e...]
> > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2003 12:44 PM
> > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: Re: Theos-World RE: Theosophy and TIME Physical Phenomena
> at a
> > Seance (3 of 3)
> >
> >
> > Dallas:
> >
> > Somehow you keep missing my point.
> >
> > DK
> > There are studies, and equipment around now, that were not there when
> > HPB was writing. She knew what was available during her life time, and
> > debated with the best minds in correspondence that were alive then.
> >
> > --------------------------------------
> >
> > DTB If you read her well (I mean all her articles and books) you
> > will find she gave explanations that exceeded the limitations of
> > material science in her time.
> >
> > She repeatedly states that OCCULT SCIENCE is age-old and covers 
every
> > aspect of study. Nature (the Universe and our Earth) are shown to run
> > by Laws and these have their roots in antiquity, not in the last 3 to
> > 400 years of Theological-free work.
> >
> > Look at our world and its many complicated and interacting structures.
> > How and when were they devised? Is it safe for us to claim that their
> > study was never done far earlier? What do we know of the secret books
> > of China and India where detailed accounts of scientific investigation
> > in all departments are to be found?
> >
> > She dealt with the invisible planes of force and power where CAUSES for=

> > material phenomena are set up. These relate to the Mind. Have we
> > exhausted our own study of Mind-powers?
> >
> > This limitation continues today. What is known of the "astral" or the
> > "psychic" and the "mental" today that was not known already in HPB's
> > time.
> >
> > Brad statements need to be substantiated by examples by you if you are
> > making claims, you have to have some basis?
> >
> > What causes healing in our bodies?
> >
> > What defines the limits and functions of cells, and their cooperative
> > aggregations? Those happen, but the reason WHY is not yet discovered 
or
> > explained. The problems of cloning and growth, the healing of diseases=

> > are all vague areas of present discovery and detection. There is littl=
e
> > accuracy or certainty there yet.
> >
> > Go to the "psychic." Mind shaping matter, or changing its shape (Uri
> > Geller) -- Kirillian photography -- molecular, atomic, sub-atomic
> > forces are under definition but afford no clues yet to the formation of=

> > new shapes. In other words the forces and fields that guide the
> > physical remain to be defined and discovered.
> >
> > --------------------------------------------
> >
> > DK
> > The things she wrote about in Séances, I have seen, and have seen more
> > mental and spiritual things in Séances that the physical things that
> > she describes.
> >
> > Some of the things she described, I have seen flatly contradicted, and
> > that field alone has progressed. At the time she was alive, all these
> > Séances had to be held in dark rooms, with no lights. I have seen them
> > held in the bright sunlight. She denied that these things were
> > possible. Things evolve.
> >
> > -------------------------------
> >
> > DTB HPB was and Adept and needed no "dark rooms." Accounts of her
> > phenomena (if you read them all) reveal that clearly. She was able to
> > guide and produce "phenomena." She was no medium.
> >
> > You make statements and claims that are unsubstantiated. A review of
> > her writings shows the amplitude of her abilities and knowledge. It ha=
s
> > to be read. It is not vague, nor did she make any unsubstantiated
> > claims.
> >
> > Go to ISIS UNVEILED if you wish an historical review of ancient
> > knowledge, also go to her many articles where astral and psychic scienc=
e
> > are considered.
> >
> > Read the SECRET DOCTRINE if you wish a coherent review of
> Cosmogenesis
> > and Anthropogenesis
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> >
> > DK
> > As I said, she put down a good base, but things have progressed since
> > she was here. This is not 1891, and her words are no longer the last
> > work on many things. I feel that this is where we may disagree the
> > most.
> >
> > You hold that her words are the last words for the Human Race
> > for all Time, and I think that the Masters give a little out from
> > time to time to help humanity evolve, just as the Third Object of
> > Theosophy expected.
> >
> > I observed during the years I attended Séances, that many of the
> > people there seemed stuck at the level of playing games with the
> > spirits, and would not, or could not, progress on into occult studies,
> > rebirth, karma, and many other things.
> >
> > I (speculate) that perhaps you, and your long reams of boilerplate
> > quotes are stuck somewhere around 1900, and feel that all the
> > knowledge that the Masters will ever give humanity, has already been
> > given by HPB, and nothing ever will be learned about the secrets that
> > the Masters did not believe mankind was ready for in 1891. They
> > observed mankind progressing when HPB was writing, and gave out 
more
> > advanced teachings with the Secret Doctrine than they did in ISIS. I
> > feel that they give a little out from time to time, and that the words
> > of HPB are not the last information that the Masters will ever enable
> > mankind to discover.
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------
> >
> > DTB That is not my contention. If I held that I would be stupid,
> > and the epithet "bigot," or "fanatic," might well be hurled at me.
> >
> > There are no "last words" in an advancing civilization where the whole
> > world and Kosmos are involved. But I can, and do say, that none of us
> > have yet fully grasped the implications of what HPB and the Masters of
> > Wisdom wrote.
> >
> > As said above they wrote of the CAUSES of physical effects and
> > phenomena. To grasp some aspects of that area that underlies
> > physical things is important. I do not think that attending Seances
> > helps in this. From all accounts, there is little improvement in that
> > area of research these days, as compared to HPB's.
> >
> > We are (most of us) very proud of our superficial advances, but we do
> > not know enough of the details and the problems Science finds and works=

> > with. A careful review of the last 125 years reveals this.
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > So, probably we differ fundamentally. We may be on different "Rays",
> > as AAB defines reality, and your approach is different than mine, both
> > tending toward the same goal.
> >
> > Dennis
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: "Dallas TenBroeck" <dalval14@e...>
> > To: <theos-talk@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Friday, December 05, 2003 5:36 PM
> > Subject: RE: Theos-World RE: Theosophy and TIME Physical Phenomena
> at
> > a Seance (3 of 3)
> >
> >
> > > Dear Dennis:
> > >
> > > There are many pointers and references regarding the "psychic nature
> > and
> > > its powers" scattered through the theosophical literature. I have
> > > accumulated some, but that by no means all.
> > >
> > > What areas are you aiming at? Can you help by greater specificity?
> > >
> > > Dal
> > >
> 
> 
> 
> 
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