Theos-Talk Archives (October 2003 Message tt00187)

Hi Bill and all of you,

My views are given in the below...using ***.



from
M. Sufilight with peace and love...


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bill Meredith" <bill_meredith@earthlink.net>
To: <theos-talk@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2003 4:10 PM
Subject: Re: Theos-World The ancient conflict..jews-christian-mohammedanism
and WW II...


>
> A few questions:
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Morten Nymann Olesen" <global-theosophy@adslhome.dk>
> To: <theos-talk@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2003 6:04 AM
> Subject: Theos-World The ancient conflict..jews-christian-mohammedanism
and
> WW II...
>
>
> > Hi all of you,
> >
> >
> > I just got hold on the following:
> >
> > 1. The US government certainly allows freedom of speech - oct. 16th
2003:
> >
> > The newly appointed - deputy undersecretary of Defense for intelligence
> makes a stir in the world !
> > Taken from "Common Dreams News Center" online:
> >
> > "WASHINGTON - The Pentagon has assigned the task of tracking down and
> eliminating Osama bin Laden, Saddam Hussein and other high-profile targets
> to an Army general who sees the war on terrorism as a clash between
> Judeo-Christian values and Satan.
> >
>
> How do you see the war on terrorism? Is it a clash between the forces of
> the disentegrator and those of the unifier?
> ***
The spiritual truth, that questions come cheap - are not always understood
by the Seekers of wisdom.
The truth is, that spiritually related questions are easily posed, but the
good answers often are difficult to put in print.

My view on terrorism:
This must be a very short answer.
The Adwaita Vedantins says something like the following.

There is only God - ParaBrahman
The World is an illusorical reality
Atma = Brahman
Atma being the withness - the Seekers own - "I", which the Seeker of wisdom
always while being a Seeker have a limited view of.

The times of Terrorism and people tellling others on how to combat terrorism
claiming themselves not being terrorists - will all pass.
The childlish manners and childlish politically-religious oriented maneuvers
by people involved on either side of what THEY call terrorism - will as time
goes by realise, that God is REAL - and that Atma = Brahman.

So my view on Terroism is - that it will all pass, - no worries there.


The second part of my answer follows here.
My view is, that some of us - Seekers of Wisdom - could do a spiritual
effort by making people aware of how this issue of Terrorism are related
to - the different time-based political OR religiously related cultures in
our little spheres - the physical included. - And also how this issue are
related to the Wisdom Teachings (theosophy) as such and how it are more
directly related to the Blavatskian Theosophy.

It is a matter of steering clear of cultural bias - when promoting the
Wisdom Teachings.
It is a matter of ignorance versus knowledge. - And this is important
because some Seekers think, that they know more than they in fact do.
It is a matter of whether the aspirants are being thought a GLOBAL outlook
upon the Planet and the spheres of life.
It matters. Do mind - do matter about it.

Cultural bias are only removed, if the apsirants are being taught how to
avoid having it.
It is by being aware of issues like the below - taken from
http://home19.inet.tele.dk/global-theosophy/cults_1.htm :

"All systems, cults, metaphysical groups and almost all human conditions,
practise conditioning. That is to say, they instil into people a limited
range of beliefs and require certain automatic practises. Unknowingly, the
people concerned (which can include the instillers) become 'servants' of the
system.

Some systems are what we can call non-comprehensive. These would include
those which do not have a world-view, and which function effectively enough
within wellunderstood and accepted limits. A group of people associated
together for the purpose of playing a game, carrying out a business or
pursuing a limited objective could be called non-comprehensive.

'Comprehensive' systems are those with world-view, or with an outlook which
causes their members to act as if they had a world-view. Such systems are
those which require (deliberately or in practise) their members to act with
regard to a comprehensive set of beliefs which will cover all, or most,
eventualities.
It will be noted that the 'Comprehensive' type system seems to include
virtually all major religious systems. This is not, however, to say that the
origimal form or understanding of the system was comprehensive in the sense
of being regarded as immutable. Certain principles may have been held to be
unchangeable: but others, some of them fundamental, can be seen as having
been absorbed, over the years and centuries, into the kind of strait-jecket
thinking which is a commen feature of systems of belief. Understanding is
replaced by dogma. The origin of the dogma, and the stage at which it became
crystallised, are easily forgotten."


It is by avoiding - the today extremly widespread and quite obvious leanings
in the western groups of SO-CALLED Wisdom teachings (theosophy) or Theosophy
and its offshoot branches - towards a half-unconscious or even deliberate
NEGLIGENCE of different cultures like The Middle East, African cultures and
other poor countries - or should we say - what some call LESS Civilized
countries (or Less Aryan ?).

It could be said to be quite thought provoking that it is an
Aryan/Atlantic - (please don't think so much about the physical color of the
skin in this debate - but the character of the persons/Souls) - related
cultural bias, which the true teacher of Wisdom are fighting against, - and
that it is related with the present day Thesophy/theosophy and the present
day battles on who is a Terrorist and who isn't. So let the Theosophists be
wise and promote theosophy wisely.

The reason being - that certain quarters - follow the religion called
"Pleasant" - adn what "is not Pleasant" or "does not Feel Good" isn't of any
importance to some Seekers. Now I wouldn't mention this - if it was not an
obvious fact, which easily could be verified.

Because of the above views - I would NOT simply call it like you pose it in
your question:
"Is it a clash between the forces of the disentegrator and those of the
unifier?"

My answer is a clear NO !
Because the view your question presents is an insufficient answer to this
place called Theos-Talk.


Did this help ?

***

>
> > Lt. Gen. William G. "Jerry" Boykin, the new deputy undersecretary of
> Defense for intelligence, is a much-decorated and twice-wounded veteran of
> covert military operations. From the bloody 1993 clash with Muslim
warlords
> in Somalia chronicled in "Black Hawk Down" and the hunt for Colombian drug
> czar Pablo Escobar to the ill-fated attempt to rescue American hostages in
> Iran in 1980, Boykin was in the thick of things.
> >
> >
> >
> > Yet the former commander and 13-year veteran of the Army's top-secret
> Delta Force is also an outspoken evangelical Christian who appeared in
dress
> uniform and polished jump boots before a religious group in Oregon in June
> to declare that radical Islamists hated the United States "because we're a
> Christian nation, because our foundation and our roots are Judeo-Christian
> ... and the enemy is a guy named Satan." - "
> >
> >
>
> Do terrorists view the United States as the "Great Satan"?

***
It certainly depends on who you ask - and what culture they are from.
It also depends on who we call Terrorists.
It also depends on what we understand with the word "United States".
For instance - The Middle Eastern religious Heaven and Hell believers have
their views - and they are RELIGIOUS - mind you.
The Western - politician has his/her view and it is often NOT really a
religious view at all !
Let us observe these facts for a moment.

So I will ask - what do you have in mind with this question of yours ?

***

>
> -------
> >
> > "We in the army of God, in the house of God, kingdom of God have been
> raised for such a time as this," Boykin said last year.
> >
>
> Do you think we reincarnate for specific purposes other than the pursuit
of
> our own "perfection"?
>
>
> > On at least one occasion, in Sandy, Ore., in June, Boykin said of
> President Bush: "He's in the White House because God put him there."
> >
> >
> >
>
> Could we agree that he is in the White House because Karma put him there?
>

***
Karma ?
What do most of the readers really know about Karma ?
Not much I am sure.

What they have merely heard or read ?
That is a different story.

Try for instance these two books so to compare with the theosophical
teachings.
Bruce Reichenbach : "The Law of Karma"
Wendy Doniger O Flaherty : "Karma and Rebirth in Classical Indian
Traditions"

My Knowledge, if it has any value to any of you, is the following.
People on the Path or not has a free will - although it is limited by
ignorance.
This view is not disputed as far as I understand.
This free will are what - to a certain extend - is deciding whether they
really are in any house or not.
Mr. Bush is not yet a perfect man - according to my knowledge. I.e. he is
not - yet - an Avatar of the 7th initiation.
But this is my knowledge - who cares? - Find out yourselves if it is
important to you.

That is why - a part of him (not yet being one with ParaBrahman) put himself
there.
(Hopefully he will find the light soon.)
We could say that God - ParaBrahman has allowed him to stay there for some
time.
But it did not put him there alone. People not being fully blown Avatars
make a choice apart from God - ParaBrahman.
We learn in the Bhagavad Gita, that Karma sprang forth from ParaBrahman.
This is true.

So I will have to ask what kind of Karma do we talk about ?
God divine Karma or Karmic force ? Or is it the Bush personality Karma ?

My answer is:
The answer cannot be either yes or no, because the Law of Karma does not
operate on a "No and Yes level" when answering questions, it is above these
levels.
We could in fact ask why do you want to know ?
I could suggest, that you learned something about Karma before asking, then
you would experience the answer - and that would be better for you !

Bottomline Bush is in the White House because God has allowed him to stay
there for a while.
God BEING Karma as a universal Law has to follow the Law or "act beyond" it.
And what do we really know about that and about Karma?
Please - do not underestimate the powers and wisdom of God - ParaBrahman.
God - ParaBrahman is beyond the lower levels of comprehension - and is
Unthinkable.


Did this help ?


from
M. Sufilight with peace and love...

****



>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>