Theos-Talk Archives (June 2003 Message tt00217)

Monday, June 23, 2003

Dear Friend:

You ask about mental action I think?

1 You ask:

"I've been living more immediately, why did it occur becomes why
does the
mind respond like this? Where thus becomes always here
immediately. How
does this response arise? How did it become conditioned becomes
how does
this activity condition? When did the cause occur becomes when
does the
cause occur?"

-------------------------

I would observe:


All mental action is internal and "subjective."


A fact emerges: Someone or something THINKS.


Thoughts are separate from the thinker.

Memory is an aspect of thought, as a record of past experience.

Hence, is there some kind of a medium or "tablet?" on which those
are entered and stored?

Is it possible for the THINKER to review past thoughts (memories)
and compare them to the present experience?

There is an element of doubt here; an uncertainty as to accuracy
of the memory.

Is this "conditioning? If so who conditions? How is
conditioning conducted? If it is other than TRUTH, then is a
lie? If so, why ?

Is "desire" a conditioning factor? Who or what in us "desires?"
Are "desires" separate from "thoughts?"

If so, how does one establish a distinction with a valid
definition?

Are desires changeable? With reference to what? -- to the TRUTH
? Is so, are they lies? What motivates a "lie?" How is it to be
define? A deviation from accuracy and truth ?

Is it possible for a "desire" to arrive at some pre-determine
conclusion likely to affect memory? Can memory be manipulated?

Where then is certainty ?

Are "desires," "prejudices," and "anticipation," factors in this
process?

What "pre-determines" them?

What value can be assigned to them?

What can serve as a check of accuracy? Immediate recoding of
impressions and view? -- for use in future to serve as a
verifying base?

-----------------------
2

You write:

'These are good questions; as I usually only look in the
immediate to
catch causes as they arise instead of catching mere memories of
them
coming from the mind in the present. If the mind has cultivated
its
ability through ease, then I believe the mind will be able to
answer the
questions without much effort, without making more karma."

-----------------------------

I WOULD OBSERVE:

What you say appears reasonable to me.

Karma is always generated by any action. It is the will and
motive that do this.

Karma is simple a result that is attached to any cause. Motion
is cause. The reason for the motion is the motive.

---------------------------------

3

"When the questions started to become immediate, looking back now
I
noticed a dramatic change in the world and body. The mind became
more
fluid and not so disturbed. Were did this happen? Only by living
right
here. How does this happen? Through sincere effort in training
the mind
to at first hear, then if there is sufficient will to continue,
seeing.
Then if there is sufficient interest the mind will apply this
process,
why? It wants this ease, it wants a bit more freedom."

------------------------

I would observe:

As time passes so do changes in relationships. However they are
held to be the same responsible successors to the originators.
Statutes and Laws are built on this in every country as an
accepted general fact.

All actions are said to be taking place on the same planes where
action exists. However the thoughts that induce changes are on a
subtler plane. Actions stir gross matter. Thoughts relate to
"thought-matter." Often behind "thoughts" are found desires. The
"desires" appear independent of "thoughts."

There appears to be kind of "moral Monitor" acting in every
human, and upon the communality of its universal ethos, the
permanent values of ethics and virtue seem to be erected.
However I note that these are not well defined. They are
"sensed" more than perceived as facts or truths.

It has been my experience that the Mind (Thinker) is free.

It (the Mind) has the capacity to view its own thoughts and its
ethical standards, and to contrast those with others.

Even these contrasts are made interiorly, and contrasted with the
suggestions made by "desire."

The capacity to compare is, I think, discrimination. This is
applied to secure the "ease" you mention.

And then there is the mysterious faculty, the capacity to be
intuitive. To see the truth of things unhesitatingly. This
appears suddenly in the mind as a solution. But even so, it has
to be checked for accuracy and reasonableness with "common
sense". so has been my experience.

---------------------------------
4
You write:

So is this man god transition something that our minds lean
toward?

So again listening to a great many teachers, what is a real
cause? Real
causes are only found right here. I think the moment the mind can
see
real causes vs. conceptual causes the mind grows a great deal and
a
great ease results. It makes for a paradigm shift in the mind, as
it
came from wisdom and realization. From this, intelligence starts
to try
to look places that it cannot, but that is a whole different
story. As
to consciousness? I think it's just along for the ride.

-----------------------------

My response:

"God" is certainly a universal excellence, the highest possible
TRUTH. It is a need that the Mind recognises as essential for
the justice and impartiality of existence t manifest everywhere
with equal hand to all beings. It is DEITY and not a "person."
Being universal, all beings are "immersed" in IT, so to say.

Hence it is the basis for all life and living. It is also the
Highest Spirit/Soul in each human and the source for universal
brotherhood. [I equate Mind and Soul.] This is the only "real
Cause."

Wisdom is universal knowledge put into practice. It is common to
all. It cannot be taught but it can be evoked from the
heart" -- the central Life-source of each human being.

Intelligence is universal -- but it becomes ever more specialized
as it moves from form to ever more complex forms. The human form
is the most complex of all. The brain-mind is able to transcend
matter and to reach out to INFINITY.

The "Consciousness" is unitary. Each human is a "conscious
unit." It passes from waking, to sleeping and to dreaming, and
to other states. But it is always the same ONE CONSCIOUSNESS.

we ought to ask: what is the aim of evolution? What does man
specifically have to do?

----------------------------------
5
You ask:

PS: In a relationship between cause and effect, with regard to
immediacy... is this a cause or result? What is the difference
between a
causal reality and a resultant reality? Because if this letter
written
was the cause of this mind's reaction, then that would cause
everyone's
mind to respond the same way. This surely isn't the case, so
seeing this
letter written is simply a fruit of some past. What was the cause
for me
to see it? What is the real cause for this mental reaction?
--------------------------------

I would observe:

There may be a time-lapse between cause and effect.. Every
Karmic cause has to be adjusted by NATURE (or karma in the
universe) to others and this takes care of the time element.

Put your finger in boiling water and the burn you get will be
"immediate Karma." Many forms of dishonesty take weeks, months,
years and even life-times to balance out.

Each individual has been generating their own Karma for many
life-times -- this makes our individual Karma different. But the
basic Laws of Karma are the same for all. Example: in
mathematics, geometry, calculus, etc... individual problems
exist, but that which unites them all to the One Truth are the
basic laws. Otherwise there would be no fairness, justice, mercy
or compassion.

We always receive that which we have doomed ourselves to receive:
good or bad.

----------------------

I hope this is of help,

Best wishes,

Dallas

=================


-----Original Message-----
From: manji
Sent:	Saturday, June 21, 2003 9:17 AM
To:	study@blavatsky.net
Subject:	[bn-study] RE: Welcome, also RE: Machine
Consciousness?


I've been living more immediately, why did it occur becomes why
does the
mind respond like this? Where thus becomes always here
immediately. How
does this response arise? How did it become conditioned becomes
how does
this activity condition? When did the cause occur becomes when
does the
cause occur?

These are good questions; as I usually only look in the immediate
to
catch causes as they arise instead of catching mere memories of
them
coming from the mind in the present. If the mind has cultivated
its
ability through ease, then I believe the mind will be able to
answer the
questions without much effort, without making more karma.

When the questions started to become immediate, looking back now
I
noticed a dramatic change in the world and body. The mind became
more
fluid and not so disturbed. Were did this happen? Only by living
right
here. How does this happen? Through sincere effort in training
the mind
to at first hear, then if there is sufficient will to continue,
seeing.
Then if there is sufficient interest the mind will apply this
process,
why? It wants this ease, it wants a bit more freedom.

So is this man > god transition something that our minds lean
toward?

So again listening to a great many teachers, what is a real
cause? Real
causes are only found right here. I think the moment the mind can
see
real causes vs. conceptual causes the mind grows a great deal and
a
great ease results. It makes for a paradigm shift in the mind, as
it
came from wisdom and realization. From this, intelligence starts
to try
to look places that it cannot, but that is a whole different
story. As
to consciousness? I think it's just along for the ride.

PS: In a relationship between cause and effect, with regard to
immediacy... is this a cause or result? What is the difference
between a
causal reality and a resultant reality? Because if this letter
written
was the cause of this mind's reaction, then that would cause
everyone's
mind to respond the same way. This surely isn't the case, so
seeing this
letter written is simply a fruit of some past. What was the cause
for me
to see it? What is the real cause for this mental reaction?

Thanks for the message...most auspicious.

-manji-

CUT