Theos-Talk Archives (March 2003 Message tt00335)

Thank you Etzion for your thoughtful clarifications and insights. It's 
important for people to understand the true basis of the Hebrew religion. 
Best wishes, Leon 

In a message dated 03/14/03 12:36:04 PM, etvionbb@netvision.net.il writes:

>This is not exactly the case, it is much more complicated than what we can
>comprehend. We have the book of Moses, which is part of the Pentateuch.
>These first five books are the Torah. Later on we have an historical
>documentation of the life of the Children of Israel in Eretz Israel (land of
>Israel, or Cana'an), and the teachings and the revelations of the prophets.
>Till the destruction of the First Temple; the Hebrew Bible ends when the
>remnants of the tribes of Israel came back from Babylon, and started to
>rebuild their country again. Since most of these people came from the tribe
>of Judah, which was the strongest, the expression *Jew*, or Yehudy started
>to be used. A Yehudy is a descendant of the tribe of Judah. It is wrong to
>call the people who study the law of Moses as *Jews*. But this is another
>story. The Talmud is the body of discussions between the scholars concerning
>the law of Moses, which can be interpreted in many, many ways. The time
>frame was about 200-300 years before Christ and 100-200 years after Christ.
>It is something like the ways Budhists *argue* between themselves. This is
>actually a book of law. The students read a passage from the book of Moses,
>and then they would go and argue about its meaning, and this could go on
>forever. These discussions formed the Talmud. So, all kinds of people
>expressed their opinions, not always to the taste of others. Sometimes
>a real rift was caused, when a dominant scholar decided that his
>interpretation is the truth, and due to his greatness, they would follow his
>decisions. For example, one scholar decided that eating chicken with milk
>is o.k. to the dismay of his fellow scholars, but they kept his decision till
>he died, and then they cancelled it. Etc, etc. The quotes on that Moslem
>site might be true, but it cannot be understood per se.
>The problem with paganizm and ritual sacrifices, is, to my view, as I said
>before, the worship of the low, physical man, something that most of us
>are addicted to as well ;-). The prophets, and later on the scholars, tried
>to separate their flock from all those abominable hostile nations , which
>surrounded Israel - Rome, Greece, Babylon, Egypt, etc. Just imagine how
>these people managed to survive at all.
>What I am trying to convey here is that we have to be careful. See how the
>people here express all kinds of *opinions* without knowledge, reading
>a little bit here and there, and call themselves *spiritual people*. Have
>some respect, be careful; looking at the faults of others is naming one's
>faults - we all participated with all these past attempts to heal humankind.
>. The Dalai Lama said that his people wouldn't be able to cope with what the
>Jewish people managed to, and I don't see yet Theosophists being staked
>while they wrap themselves with the holy scrolls of The Secret Doctrine, as
>my ancestors did not once, when the good Christians of Europe used to do
>often. Good luck to you all. Etzion
>
>From: <leonmaurer@aol.com>
>
>>
>> In a message dated 03/12/03 6:51:31 PM, stevestubbs@yahoo.com writes:
>>
>> >--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, leonmaurer@a... wrote:
>> >> They aren't. Those quotes are entirely apocryphal -- since,
>> >according to my
>> >> Kabbalistic authority (Notes from my father's and grandfather's
>> >occult
>> >> library) those English texts claiming to be translated from the
>> >Mishnah and
>> >> the Gemara are as valid as the Protocols of Zion.
>> >
>> >In that case many thanks for setting the record straight. Just to
>> >complete the record, do you have any information where these quotes
>> >did come from?
>>
>> No real idea. However, as Etzion pointed out there were ancient Hebrew
>> tribes who practiced idolatry and ritual sacrifice, that were tossed out
>> after Moses laid down the religious laws and practices, which were 
originally
>> oral teachings, but later written down by rabbinical scholars as the 
Talmud.
>>
>> Some of these outlawed tribes might have also written down their ritual
>> practices that would have no relationship to the Mishna and Gemora Talmud
>> of modern orthodox Judaism. Also, there were many false quotes, similar to
>> the Protocols, that were forged, possibly from these non rabbinical 
apocryphal
>> writings, by European anti-Semites for propaganda purposes to justify
>> pogroms as well as the Nazi persecutions and atrocities against the Jews.
>>
>> Also, it should be noted that for the majority of world Jewry, the Talmud
>> is not a fixed body of law, and has always been subject to interpretation,
>> revision, and change. Like most religions, the modern Jews have many 
degrees
>> of conformance with scripture ranging from the small minority of extreme
>> orthodox to the relatively large majority of conservative, reformed and
>> secular Jews.
>>
>> LHM