Theos-Talk Archives (January 2003 Message tt00460)

Hi Leon, I have written many messages in the last months which further
explain what I was talking about in the message, some directly, and some by
convening a certain kind and quality of material. For instance, the quality
of grip (GRP) is different from the quality of slip (SLP), and there are
different ways to convey this idea, one of which is by simply stating this,
as I am now, and another is by actively creating a certain quality of grip
and not slip in my messages.

You have asked many questions in your message. The good part is that you are
asking questions. The bad part is that these questions seem to be part of a
reactive set and therefore ear almost of a rhetorical nature and do not
appear to have a certain open quality to them that is connected to genuine
wonder and the sharing of new ideas that may facilitate the taking of
creative leaps in understanding.

This message you are replying to is a month old. I have left at least thirty
messages since then, all of which have had the aim and intent of further
explaining what I am talking about in this messages. Things move very fast
on a list such as this, so, in some ways, your response is time
inappropriate, as a lot of people on here probably have started to have more
of a sense of what I am talking about and where I am going with this
material then they did at the time I wrote this message, and so this is sort
of going backwards. In any case, I will make a few comments below.

----- Original Message -----
From: <leonmaurer@aol.com>
To: <theos-talk@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 18, 2003 3:03 AM
Subject: Re: Theos-World politics


>
> In a message dated 12/14/02 3:11:47 AM, wry1111@earthlink.net writes:
>
> >I believe it is important to try to change the world, but often talking
> >about political situations gives me an illusion that I am changing
something,
> >when actually I just feel better because I have let off some steam by
talking
> >about something that irritates me and I feel powerless to do anything
about.
> >
> >The best way people can use a list like this, and I know some may not
agree,
> > is to work together to set up some conditions where people can develop.
>
> What conditions?

WRY: A atmosphere where there is a quality of genuine questioning. Bill
recently had a dialogue with someone that approached what I would call
enquiry. There is a certain material quality created by enquiry that can
open many doorways. When many people do this together, material actually
aligns to literally create openings through which the sacred or whatever you
want to call it can enter. Then I can take a taste of this back to ordinary
life with me and use it actively for inspiration to make an effort that is
difficult. This is possible from being in a group and actively working with
other members to create a certain force that is beneficial not only to
oneself. Enquiry is an example of only one kind of condition that can be
created. There are others. I would not want a list like this to be the same
as ordinary life.

Develop what?

WRY: Spiritual bodies.

How?

WRY: By opposing "I", or the beginning of it to the material of everything
else, especially my living body as it moves, in such a way that a certain
current can eventually enter the heart and come to rest there, but this is
perhaps a little bit in the furture for most of us.

Why?

WRY: BE cause.

What for?

WRY; To fufill the promise of relationship.

>No one can aid anyone in
> their self development of their own consciousness and the attainment of
> correct knowledge and practical wisdom. All anyone can do is give them a
set
> of principles and point them in the direction of self realization through
> their own self devised and self determined

WRY: This is wrong. It is the personality, which is a movement away from
pain towards pleasure, which will artfully devise a movement away from the
development of the self. This is the nature of physical reality, and it is
very SAD. I am prepared to go into this in detail.

>study, effort and practice...

WRY: The NATURE of study, effort, and practice is the KEY to everything. I
will go into this in detail, little by little. If you use the wrong kind of
knife, you cannot skin a cow.


> That, HPB has already done. What's wrong with the conditions set up here
and
> in other theosophical study groups to carry out this work of understanding
> fundamental theosophy -- while we go about developing ourselves? Sure,
> there's a lot of "noise" on this forum. But, what can you know that we
don't
> already know about setting up conditions for such "self devised and self
> determined study and effort" -- that requires no self professed gurus or
ego
> tripping organizers to lead? If you've got something really worthwhile to
> add to the study of theosophy, then say it and get off the soapbox.

WRY: This is just mechanical talk, as I see it. I have said much more than
you realize. Grip not slip. Do you understand the profound signifigance of
this and the implication? Apparently not. Follow it to the end. "Tether your
camel, then seek God." Just because you do not understand me does not mean
that some others do not. My material is not for everyone, even everyone on
here. Such is the nature of physical reality.

> I am
> interested in seeing theosophists begin to cooperate in finding a way to
> spread the consciousness of brotherhood and cooperation worldwide, but I
> don't know if this forum reaches far enough to do any good.

WRY: I have thought this, too, but there is a way to make the material on
here s-t-r-e-t-c-h VERY far. This is my special subject of study, and maybe,
if conditions are set up right, we can discover how to do that. I will not
say more on this subject now, but it has something to do with the various
densities of certain materials and aligning different kinds and qualities of
material in certain ways.


>
> >If something that has no opinion sees me as I am, impartial data will be
> >gathered and material will be released, as my idea of "this" and what
really
> >is "this" will align. As material is shed (like rain), the material
> >that remains can begin to function as the little brick oven (athanator)
> >of the philosophers, in such a way that incoming material will begin to
> >gently bake, as I continue to make efforts along the same line. This is
> >the beginning of the making of the stone. Nothing is magical about this.
> >It is simply a material process. But in order for it to happen, a
specific
> >effort needs to be applied.
>
> This apparently self serving and pompous verbosity makes no sense.

WRY: You did not understand what I was saying. It's a hard concept fo grasp.
I have already gone into this several times in the last months, and after
reading some of these messages, especially the one to Bag I wrote recently,
in which I mentioned the firmament, it may become clearer.

>>What
> impartial data?

WRY: Good question, and all the rest of these questions are, too. The data
is incoming umpressions that are not interpreteted. For instance, when I am
walking down the street and am seeing trees and houses, I am thinking about
something else. This is hard to understand, perhaps, but the data that is
incoming is being inappropriately interpreted by my thoughts about something
else, therefore I cannot make the appropriate movement in relationship to
the trees, the houses, the sun, the planets or whatever. I cannot change
what is happening in the United Nations or even use (to affect the United
Nations) the energy that I am wasting by compressing my continuously tightly
held in anal muscles or whatever.

Gathered by whom?

QWRY: The ordinary personality, or conditioned mind.

What's your idea of "this"?

WRY: At this point, pretty close to what it actually is, (though I could be
wrong), but it wasn't always that way. Once, when I was very young (in my
twenties) I was walking down the street and as a stranger approached me, I
looked at my watch. I was actually doing this because I was afraid of making
eye contact, but I believed that I wanted to know what time it was at that
exact moment.Something from outside caught this. Of course, this is a gross
example, but people, including you and me, will live their lives this way,
and this is the disorder of this world. It is SAD. If something from outside
the circle (a part of the brain that is not otherwise engaged), sees this,
there is hope.

>What material
> is shed?

WRY: Misconceptions about the nature of physical reality. but it is more
than this. I think it is a form of what is referred to symbolically as "ash"
or something like that.

What material remains?

WRY: Material that will form a spiritual body.


<What are you baking?

WRY: The "stone," and you are my best helper, as I knew you would be, maybe
because you have a wife who understands the nature of wonder, or maybe
because your father bribed you to read a certain book when you were a child.
Too bad you didn't read it two more times.

<<What's supposed to
<happen?

WRY: A replica of the physical form that is not so damp. Maybe.
(I could tell you or others anything and you would believe it or not believe
it according to your conditioning).

<< What specific effort is needed?

WRY: Already explained. impartial self observation. Too many questions for
one message.

>>What material process?

WRY: Everything is a material process. If you want to know more about this
exercise, try it and find out. Bring your experience of this and questions
here and we can talk about it (though I doubt you would do so).

What efforts
> along what "same line" are you going to make? Why all the allegories that
> have no linkage to anything?

WRY: I don't use allegory that has no linkage to anything. In any case, no
one does, as there is no such kind of allegory.

>Sounds suspiciously like someone setting the
> stage before coming out to pull off a "non magical" trick, by talking us
into
> buying a big bottle of snake oil. :-)

WRY: Everything I say out here is a set-up. Interesting that "trick" and
"track" have the same consonant base.

>I thought you said you were speaking
> for HPB. I have never read one word by HPB or WQJ that sounded like this.

WRY: I am continuing where she left off (in my opinion, at least).

>Who
> are you trying to kid that you know something we don't know?

WRY: IF I stay here, you will see that I am not trying to kid anyone, though
this should be obvious already. Actually, it is many, though perhaps not
all, of you, who are trying to and suceeding in fooling yourselves.

>
> >Talking about President Bush will probably not affect President Bush, but
> >an effort to have something be truly objective to myself as I am can have
> >results that are very far reaching. When material aligns in such a way
> >that it is oscillating at a higher frequency, the material surrounding
> >it will be drawn to it, and eventually begin to reconfigure in a way that
> >is more organized. This is true magic in that it has nothing to do with
> >so-called magic, either black or white, but rather with simple everyday
> >life on earth when we are new about thosophy are getting to be a
drag.aying
> attention and everything comes into focus.
> >And, as I have said to Mauri, it ultimately comes down to the body doing
> >everyday chores while something that is outside charts this body, with
> >its internal processes, as an object.. This is the beginning of finding
> >the way home. It is serious. Making a message such as this helps me to
> >be a little more objective. Wry
>
> Double-talk? At least that's what it appears to me to be. What material
are
> you talking about? What has "alignment" or "oscillation" of it got to do
> with anything?

WRY: I will not answer this as it is suitable for a good ponder.

What results?

WRY: Greater doing.

>Is this important theosophical information
> that is helpful to anyone?

WRY: In my opinion, yes.

>If, so, why hide it under what appears to be
> slippery and roundabout verbiage?


WRY: Certain material can onbly be presented in a certain way, and actually,
my material has more grp than anything else out here.


> Or, are you just wagging your own tail,
> and expect us to offer you a bone?

WRY: And win a big popularity contest? (which actually I probably am
winning.) Just turn this around. I have a bone to offer you, but you can
only get it by turning the dog around and actively digging. In this way, you
will not die like a dog someday, but like a man. (Interesting that dog and
dig are of the same consonant base). Actually, the symbol dog is the key to
much, if not everything..

>Hope, I don't sound too harsh or
> critical, but letters that say nothing useful about theosophy and appear
to
> be nothing more than self massaging ego trips are getting to be a drag.
> (And, my mail box is already 172 letters behind to read and maybe answer.

WRY: You are my helper. At least you have asked some real questions, whether
you intended them to be real or not. Sincerely, Wry
> :-)
>
> LHM
>
>
>
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>
>