Theos-Talk Archives (November 2002 Message tt00454)

--- In theosophy_talks_truth@y..., "netemara888" <netemara888@y...> 
wrote:
This is a repost because I want to make a point about worshipping 
anyone in the flesh. We are not to worship anyone, but we love 
everyone. Rumi was a saint no doubt in my estimation. But was he a 
Master who came here to return souls? Probably not. Did he have 
karmic ties to others in his life? Certainly he did if this 
scholastic account I found is true. Did Jesus have karmic ties with 
those he found in his life as Jesus certainly he did. Did the RS 
Masters I followed for 22 years have karma, yes they most certainly 
did. 

If you read long enough on the web you will probably find a group or 
authors, in progress, who expose these groups as rabid cults. The 
definition of a cult is such that a charismatic leader is followed 
and worshipped or loved by his followers in a 'love is blind' sort of 
way. But what is also implied is that the leader is giving something 
of himself to those people and that group. But what the detractors 
focus on is what is THE leader getting in return from his group. Is 
he or she taking credit for what God has already planted in each and 
every one of us?

Namaste

Net

******************



--- In radhasoamistudies@y..., "netemara888" <netemara888@y...> wrote:
> The following quotes are from "Biographical Encyclopedia of Sufis" 
by 
> N. Hanif (printed in India)--first edition 2002
> 
> "Now Rumi left off teaching and preaching and spent days and nights 
in 
> the company of Shams. It was rumoured that a magician had 
bewitched 
> the great divine. Rumi's sons and disciples turned against Shams 
> whom they considered to be a chalatan and sorcerer....Something 
> happened which turned Rumi's son Ala al-Din (Rumi was Iranian by 
the 
> way) against Shams and others joined him with the result that Shams 
> disappeared for good....other biographies are full of the accord 
that 
> Shams was assassinated by Rumi's disciples and the author 
of "Nafahat 
> al-Uns" mentions the name of Rumi's son as his murderer...the 
> disappearance of Shams took place in about 645/1247."
> 
> "Rumi had no intention of either founding a new sect or initiating 
a 
> new movement; his devotees and disciples, however, did form a 
> distinctive group after his death, but they developed and 
perpetuated 
> only some external observances and rituals and degenerated into a 
> community of whirling dervishes. A felt-cap without a seam--the 
> leaders also wrapping a turban around it and wearing voluminous 
> trousers of many folds."
> 
> Naturally Rumi, as any true Saint was against such imitation 
and "With Rumi ecstatic dance accompanied by spontaneously gushing 
forth lyrics was an involuntary expression of a deeply stirred soul."
> 
> page 386-387.
> 
> ********
> 
> I was walking out of the library here at Notre Dame and I happened 
to spot this book with another on the shelf as new arrivals in the 
> Reference Department. And I wanted to answer my own question about 
> the whirling dervishes. But found a bit of scandal to go with it. 
It seems then that Shams was Rumi's guru and Rumi became an almost 
> instant overnight success with his ecstatic poems? 
> 
> Just goes to show that even the Saints (makes you wonder about the 
NO KARMA THING ABOUT Saints--does it not?) are not above having 
karmic scandals mushroom around them. For me this puts to rest the 
bit about Sants having no karma, it just is not true. And where does 
karma flow? It flows from having past lives. With this new 
biographical book (2) on Sufis, heck I could trace back all the past 
lives of the "Sants" we have here been discussing...I'm taking 
bets....Will find 
> Rebazar too.....just kidding.....
> 
> ************
> 
> Historical question:
> 
> Does anybody know the history of the turban as it relates to India 
> itself? I know that the Arabs and those in desert countries always 
> covered heads and bodies because of the intense sun and heat but 
where 
> did the turban come from and did it become at some point a symbol 
or 
> essence of the "guru?" Was it all born out of the Middle East and 
> modified from country to country in terms of style and importance?
> 
> Net
--- End forwarded message ---