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Re: Theos-World Fwd: Rumi, Rumours and Scandals?

Nov 16, 2002 09:53 AM
by Morten Nymann Olesen

Hi all of you,

I have som points to the below, which could be of some help:

1. Attraction of Celebrities
A man who is being delivered frim the danger of a fierce lion deos not
object, wheather this service is performed by an unknown or by an
illustrious individual. Why, therefore, do people seek knowledge from
celebrities ?

2. I think it was the sufi El-Ghazali (d.1111) who said something like the
The disticntion between opinion and knowledge is something, which can easily
be lost. When this happens,
it is incumbent upon those who know the difference to make it plain as far
as they are able.
This habit of confusing opinion with knowledge is almost a epidemic disease
these days.
Well, that was years ago, but this issue seems to be a disease even today.

It is allright that some people have authorities. But they have to be
constructive. If the authority is
destructive, then I won't be good and have to be stopped.
I could ask if any has an opinion on wheather any authorities today are good
or bad, and I would probably get a lot of hands.
But if I ask about if any have the needed spiritual knowledge to judged
wheather it is true, - I bet near all the hands will fall down - if the
truth was to be presented.

4. Rumi (d.1273) like other Sufi-authors plants his teachings within a
framework or something sort of similar which as effectively screens its
inner meaning as displays it. This thechnique fullfills the functions of
preventing those who want poetry to select poetry; giving entertainment to
people who want stories; stimulationg the intellect in those who prize such
Rumi: In it, what is in it ? You get out of it, what is in it for you.

Of this there is no academic proof in the world;
For its hidden, and hidden, and hidden. (by Rumi - translated to english)

The intelligence is the shadow of objective Truth,
How can the shadow vie with sunshine? (by Rumi - translated to english)

M. Sufilight with peace...

----- Original Message -----
From: "netemara888" <>
To: <>
Sent: Saturday, November 16, 2002 3:39 PM
Subject: Theos-World Fwd: Rumi, Rumours and Scandals?

> --- In theosophy_talks_truth@y..., "netemara888" <netemara888@y...>
> wrote:
> This is a repost because I want to make a point about worshipping
> anyone in the flesh. We are not to worship anyone, but we love
> everyone. Rumi was a saint no doubt in my estimation. But was he a
> Master who came here to return souls? Probably not. Did he have
> karmic ties to others in his life? Certainly he did if this
> scholastic account I found is true. Did Jesus have karmic ties with
> those he found in his life as Jesus certainly he did. Did the RS
> Masters I followed for 22 years have karma, yes they most certainly
> did.
> If you read long enough on the web you will probably find a group or
> authors, in progress, who expose these groups as rabid cults. The
> definition of a cult is such that a charismatic leader is followed
> and worshipped or loved by his followers in a 'love is blind' sort of
> way. But what is also implied is that the leader is giving something
> of himself to those people and that group. But what the detractors
> focus on is what is THE leader getting in return from his group. Is
> he or she taking credit for what God has already planted in each and
> every one of us?
> Namaste
> Net
> ******************
> --- In radhasoamistudies@y..., "netemara888" <netemara888@y...> wrote:
> > The following quotes are from "Biographical Encyclopedia of Sufis"
> by
> > N. Hanif (printed in India)--first edition 2002
> >
> > "Now Rumi left off teaching and preaching and spent days and nights
> in
> > the company of Shams. It was rumoured that a magician had
> bewitched
> > the great divine. Rumi's sons and disciples turned against Shams
> > whom they considered to be a chalatan and sorcerer....Something
> > happened which turned Rumi's son Ala al-Din (Rumi was Iranian by
> the
> > way) against Shams and others joined him with the result that Shams
> > disappeared for good....other biographies are full of the accord
> that
> > Shams was assassinated by Rumi's disciples and the author
> of "Nafahat
> > al-Uns" mentions the name of Rumi's son as his murderer...the
> > disappearance of Shams took place in about 645/1247."
> >
> > "Rumi had no intention of either founding a new sect or initiating
> a
> > new movement; his devotees and disciples, however, did form a
> > distinctive group after his death, but they developed and
> perpetuated
> > only some external observances and rituals and degenerated into a
> > community of whirling dervishes. A felt-cap without a seam--the
> > leaders also wrapping a turban around it and wearing voluminous
> > trousers of many folds."
> >
> > Naturally Rumi, as any true Saint was against such imitation
> and "With Rumi ecstatic dance accompanied by spontaneously gushing
> forth lyrics was an involuntary expression of a deeply stirred soul."
> >
> > page 386-387.
> >
> > ********
> >
> > I was walking out of the library here at Notre Dame and I happened
> to spot this book with another on the shelf as new arrivals in the
> > Reference Department. And I wanted to answer my own question about
> > the whirling dervishes. But found a bit of scandal to go with it.
> It seems then that Shams was Rumi's guru and Rumi became an almost
> > instant overnight success with his ecstatic poems?
> >
> > Just goes to show that even the Saints (makes you wonder about the
> NO KARMA THING ABOUT Saints--does it not?) are not above having
> karmic scandals mushroom around them. For me this puts to rest the
> bit about Sants having no karma, it just is not true. And where does
> karma flow? It flows from having past lives. With this new
> biographical book (2) on Sufis, heck I could trace back all the past
> lives of the "Sants" we have here been discussing...I'm taking
> bets....Will find
> > Rebazar too.....just kidding.....
> >
> > ************
> >
> > Historical question:
> >
> > Does anybody know the history of the turban as it relates to India
> > itself? I know that the Arabs and those in desert countries always
> > covered heads and bodies because of the intense sun and heat but
> where
> > did the turban come from and did it become at some point a symbol
> or
> > essence of the "guru?" Was it all born out of the Middle East and
> > modified from country to country in terms of style and importance?
> >
> > Net
> --- End forwarded message ---
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to

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