Theos-Talk Archives (November 2002 Message tt00143)

In a message dated 09/04/02 11:53:02 AM, medinuclear@hotmail.com writes:
>
>>From Philip Benjamin medinuclear@hotmail.com
>Experience, Trinity and the West.
>
>[Anthony Sebastian]
>
>One important thing that we observe is that sometimes we experience that
>we are experiencing objects and events.
>
>[Benjamin]
>
>Sometimes is Dt. Experience is Dx Experience of objects & events
>is Don + Den, where n is 1 to infinity. To use a little high school math,
> dx/dt = do/dt + de/dt. Could this be right? Is this what you mean? Why
>should there be any boundary conditions? Who determines the boundaries
>and how? Why should this experience be limited to a few objects and events
>and not an infinity of objects and events? Why the *experiensor* is so 
finite
>in experiencing?
>
>[Leon Maurer]
>
>As the Buddha said, "Nothing comes from nothing." ........“could be modeled
>as a zero-point that is spinning in infinite directions on infinite axes
>with infinite degrees of angular momenta.....”.
>
>[Benjamin]
>
>Very true, for your Buddha was a finite creature like you and me (nothing
>pejorative meant or implied)! Could this be true if your Buddha was 
>infinite in knowledge and power? Is an infinity of nothing, nothing or
>infinity? Are there no normal cautions and precautions one has to take
>when dealing with infinity? You do not and cannot deny that there is no 
>such thing as infinity! It always crops up in mathematics. At least death, 
>for some, is an infinity of nothingness, and is very real.

If there is no such thing as an infinity, what is there beyond the bounds of 
this finite universe? If it can crop up in mathematics, then it at least it 
is a conceivable, or (better) "imaginable" concept. How many times can we 
trace around a circle? And how long can an infinitesimal point of space with 
no energy in itself, and nothing to stop it, keep on spinning? How can 
linear motion, which is the root of ALL energy in this entire universe, come 
from non motion? I have no trouble imagining the "emptiness" (of "Sturm and 
Drang," energy and form, cognition and matter) that had to exist before the 
Big Bang.

>[Leon Maurer]
>
>This would correspond, perhaps, to the ancient esoteric Eastern 
>philosophical doctrine (later borrowed in distorted form by both Eastern
>and Western organized religions) that the Universe is a fundamental trinity 
>that is the sum of consciousness, matter and space -- the "father, the 
>mother and the son (or holy ghost) -- so to speak.
>
>[Benjamin]
>
>Here is a question, not of faith, or fallacy but of accuracy and 
>authenticity. It is very possible that you are an expert on Eastern 
>mysticism and philosophy. On the other hand, I know very little, precious
>too little, about Western philosophy and theology. So I have to be extremely
>careful when I quote or write anything on these matters. After much 
>deliberation on this, I can confidently say that the trinity you are 
>referring to has NOTHING whatsoever to do with the Trinity of the Bible.

I agree, it was intended only as a metaphor, albeit a weak one -- since your 
take on the Christian version of the Old Testament is based solely on its 
"dead letter" interpretations of contrived theology by ignorant, power hungry 
Kings, priests, and their hired scribes who needed to brain wash their 
ignorant followers into accepting their version of a vengeful personal God, 
as well as his ten commandments and "vicarious atonement" without question. 
This is not (although consistent with it in numbers only) the esoteric truths 
of logical, if not "scientific" Cosmogenesis as known to the ancient Eastern 
mystic philosophers (and Kabbalist who understood the ancient Hebrew Torah, 
and its numerical interpretation which is almost identical to the ancient 
hermetic mysteries). 

These ancients seemed to understand that the universe of infinite substantial 
and coenergetic "form and measure" must have involved and evolved out of an 
"emptiness (of form and measure) that was also a "fullness" of potentially 
infinite energetic motion or energy, as well as potentially infinite 
awareness.  

Isn't it obvious that where there is objectivity, there has to be 
subjectivity? Can one exist without the other -- either, as noumena in the 
realm of pre Cosmic, non metric, proto-space, or as phenomena in the post 
cosmic realm of metric space? If the phenomenal universe is infinite, then 
its source must also be infinite. On the other hand, if the universe is 
finite, and possibly one of many, then its source could either be infinite or 
finite. (But in this case "finite" could be a pretty large googolplex 
number.) In any case, the given is that "nothing comes from nothing." And, 
even the noumena of both consciousness and matter, which must come into 
existence and go out of "existence" as a unity -- is "something." If that 
source is not infinite, it still must be far greater that it is our 
possibility to imagine or measure the extent of the physical universe or the 
scope of its fields of consciousness.
 
>[Benjamin]
>
>The trinity of the Bible is “Elohim” a uni-plural Name of an Eternal and
>Infinite conscious Being which is referred to as “GODHEAD”three times
>in the Greek Scriptures. There is eternal communication, planning and 
>“ordaining” of events between the persons of the Trinity.

This anthropomorphized version of the Trinity is based solely on the esoteric 
fundamental concepts of ancient occultism, that understood that all spherical 
fields, must be formed in accord with the fundamental laws of cycles and 
periodicity... And, therefore, the first emanation out of the initial 
zero-point of infinite, "omnipresent, omniscient and omnipotent" subjective 
awareness (which some might call God) surrounded by its objective spherical 
"spinergy" must be in the form of three spherical fields (one surrounding 
two) of descending substantiality's that are, due to their zero-point centers 
of origin, fully conscious and aware individualities -- having all the 
knowledge of the holographic interference patterned information regarding the 
Universes previous "creation" or "awakening" stored in the infinite lines of 
circular force of their originating primal spinergy. Thus, in esoteric 
philosophy or theosophy, these three "beings" or triune "Crown" of the ten 
(3+7) Sephirothal (fields of consciousness) are called "Cosmocratores" or 
"Architects of the Universe." 

The "Elohim," which represents in the Kabbala the ten Sephirothal emanations 
of the Primal source or "Ein Soph" (no thing) is not the trinity of the 
Bible. Since these emanations can be broken down into three upper fields, 
then four fields and finally three again. The first three -- the crown, 
"Kether" (representing the surrounding field of universal consciousness) plus 
the twin inner fields of dual mind, "Binah" (representing Wisdom), and 
Chochma (representing knowledge) --are the "Trinity" of the Bible (and all 
other esoteric interpretations of the universal religion). Below the first 
triune conscious field emanations, are the four fields of more substantial u
niversal matter, and below that the three fields of human consciousness and 
dual mind nature that reflect the triple fields of God or universal nature.  
These fields of the upper trinity of the Sephirothal "Tree of Life" are also 
noted in the Brahmanical ten fold nature of the Universe, as Brahma (the 
creator) Vishnu (the sustainer) and Shiva (the destroyer). It interesting 
that the recent configurations of Superstring/M-brane theory consider the 
universe as a ten dimensional manifold of both hidden and objective energy 
fields starting with single strings of fundamental energy emanating out of 
the zero-point.  

>[Benjamin]
>
>For example “Let US make man in OUR image (not images). “Who shall 
>go for US, whom shall WE send"? Or “ Draw near to me, hear this: from the 
>beginning I have not spoken in secret, from the time it came to be I have 
>been there. And now the Adonai Elohim has sent Me and His Spirit”. 
>These are not some nebulous ethereal consciousnesses floating around. 
>These are three distinct Persons- with personality, will, emotion, 
>intelligence in perfect unison and resonance and communication with 
>each other with a holographic, hierarchical structure and order. 
>The closest analogy will be the old fashioned Western description of 
>a human as spirit, soul, and body, a triune entity awaiting a PHYSICAL 
>resurrection. There is no triple headed Trinity, just as there
>is no triple headed human.

That's only if one takes a strictly materialistic view and dead letter 
interpretation of the religious concepts of spirit (or consciousness) and 
matter. However, the logical foundation of the universe based on the 
emanation of its being out of the consciously aware and coenergetic 
zero-point spinergy requires that the first three fields be individually 
conscious and aware of the entire nature of the previously conscious universe 
itself... That can have no beginning or end, and must, in obedience to its f
undamentally inherent laws of cycles and energetics, sleep and wake 
periodically -- without forgetting its previous awakenings -- just as we do.  
>From the universal point of view, if all of nature is energy fields and such 
fields can carry information in the form of holographic interference patterns 
then my theory of ABC, explaining how perception works, is a reasonable 
hypothesis. Especially in the face of the inability of neuroscience, quantum 
physics or any other reductive methods of explaining the hard problems of 
qualia and brain-mind binding to give us any reasonable answers. 

Perhaps science may one day recognize that the fundamental law of 
conservation includes "information" and "consciousness"as well as 
energy-matter -- in one form or another. In any event, there is no such 
thing as a "completeness" of anything that isn't in some fundamental respect, 
a trinity. Isn't the first separate linear two dimensional structure in the 
universe a triangle? Can anything exist in time without a past, present and 
future? Is there any story to be told that doesn't have a beginning, a 
middle and an end? Are we not born, grow and die? (At least physically :-)  
So, cannot we conclude that a human being is nothing more than a 
consciousness or awareness that "feels" (or experiences) -- who has a mind to 
imagine and think with, and a brain-body to interface it with the outer world 
and allow it to act and react consciously? Or, might we go a bit further and 
say that the real nature of each human being is its "awareness," along with 
its field of universal memory, and its fields of rational and intuitive mind 
(sometimes used and sometimes ignored). Thus, "Man" could very well be "made 
in the Image of God" -- being a direct reflection of its initially emanated 
triple field "Monad" -- as it says in the ancient teachings, and 
misinterpreted in the Bible to refer only to the physical body. We might 
then reinterpret the Biblical (Catholic interpretation) Trinity by saying, 
the awareness and dual mind is the "Father," the body-brain is the "Mother," 
and the universal awareness and (relatively) infinite knowledge and wisdom 
behind it all, is the "Holy Ghost."  

>[Benjamin]
>
>The statement “let there be luminosity” in Genesis 1 is not from a nebulous
>consciousness, but from an Intelligent Being who “separated the darkness
>from the luminosity” or the dark matter from the luminous matter. That
>“space” of separation was given a “time” measure called “day.” These are
>not random acts of an indefinable mystic consciousness.

This concept of a separate, anthropomorphized God that "created" the 
universe, is a complete distortion of the scientifically sound concepts of 
the actual origination of "this" particular cycle of our endless and 
beginnings universe. Such a personal God concept leads to an infinite 
regress, when one asks, who or what created him? Such Biblical nonsense has 
nothing to do with the scientifically logical conception of an impersonal, 
eternal universal proto-consciousness and associated energy that periodically 
appears, grows experientially, and disappears -- to appear again at a higher 
level of conscious experience -- ad infinitum. There is nothing random about 
the expansion of the initial zero-point spinergy of the primal singularity 
into the entire multidimensional universe of mass-energy -- with the initial 
zero-point of universal awareness reflected in zero-point origin of every 
coenergetic field on both objective and subjective levels of consciousness 
and matter. We might thus, substitute the word "consciousness" for the word 
"spirit" in the Bible.

>[Benjamin] 
>
>In fact the word “consciousness” is not even ONCE mentioned or implied
>anywhere in the Hebrew or Greek scriptures which are the foundations of the 
>modern West, and the Orthodox part of the East. The West has done pretty
>well WITHOUT the magical consciousness, compared to the REST of the world
>steeped in consciousness, which they neither understood nor could define, so 
>much so there is a mass exodus of *consciousnesses* from the Rest to the
>West.

>From a materialistic point of view, you are entirely correct. But, what has 
that got to do with the "true nature of reality," which includes both 
consciousness and matter, that we are (sometimes) discussing on these forums?

Best Regards

Leon Maurer