Theos-Talk Archives (July 2002 Message tt00165)

Hi all of you,

Thanks Steve.

1. Yes LaRouche is conspiring a lot.

2. Steve wrote in the below:
Actually, those were Gandhi's ideas. One of King's
> sayings was: "Christ gave me the message, Gandhi gave
> me the method."

Answer: Yes, but the message came more than one time from Christ.
(I.e. according to my 'mirror-readings' of an Akasha level.)

3. To compare King with Nixon's "I am no crook" is quite giving for some people. For if you are not doing at least the same spiritual efforts as King did - what are you then ? - 
A crook ?  
( Maybe a dollar-crook.)
YES !??
All right we can only do our best.
(There is the pro-Afghanistan/Vietnam group and there is the group against such evils).
t-T-t

4. I read it like this: 
King was for National or more global karmical reasons NOT going to be president.
Hypothetically: King could have run for president year 1972 - even if he would have lost to LBJ or a new JFK. The implications are at least worth considering.
But he died, and that is that.
King was promoting a political-religous agenda. LBJ and JFK can hardly be said to have had the same spiritual drive behind them even though they were popular and all !

5. But who - by evil spiritualistic forces - encouraged James Earl Ray to shoot King ?
This remains unanswered.
My readings points the finger at a certain sector of the major dollar-cartels.


6. The Dugpa's are reffered to as you certainly know by Blavatsky as the negative force in the article : "OCCULTISM VERSUS THE OCCULT ARTS" ; 1888

Excerpt:
"There are four (out of the many other) names of the various kinds of Esoteric Knowledge or Sciences given, even in the esoteric Purānas. There is (1) Yajna-Vidya,1 knowledge of the occult powers awakened in Nature by the performance of certain religious ceremonies and rites. (2) Maha-vidya, the "great knowledge," the magic of the Kabalists and of the Tantrika worship, often Sorcery of the worst description. (3) Guhya-Vidya, knowledge of the mystic powers residing in Sound (Ether), hence in the Mantras (chanted prayers or incantations) and depending on the rhythm and melody used; in other words a magical performance based on Knowledge of the Forces of Nature and their correlation; and (4) ATMA-VIDYA, a term which is translated simply "knowledge of the Soul," true Wisdom by the Orientalists, but which means far more. 

This last is the only kind of Occultism that any theosophist who admires Light on the Path, and who would be wise and unselfish, ought to strive after. All the rest is some branch of the "Occult Sciences," i.e., arts based onthe knowledge of the ultimate essence of all things in the Kingdoms of Nature--such as minerals, plants and animals--hence of things pertaining to the realm of material nature, however invisible that essence may be, and howsoever much it has hitherto eluded the grasp of Science. Alchemy, Astrology,Occult Physiology, Chiromancy, exist in Nature and the exact Sciences--perhaps so called, because they are found in this age of paradoxical philosophies the reverse--have already discovered not a few of the secrets of the above arts. But clairvoyance, symbolised in India as the "Eye of Siva," called in Japan, "Infinite Vision," is not Hypnotism, the illegitimate son of Mesmerism, and is not to be acquired by such arts. All the others may be mastered and results obtained, whether good, bad or indifferent; but Atma-Vidyasets small value on them. It includes them all and may even use them occasionally, but it does so after purifying them of their dross, for beneficentpurposes, and taking care to deprive them of every element of selfish motive. Let us explain: Any man or woman can set himself or herself to study one or all of the above specified "Occult Arts" without any great previous preparation, and even without adopting any too restraining mode of life. One could even dispense with any lofty standard of morality. In the last case, of course, ten to one the student would blossom into a very decent kind of sorcerer, and tumble down headlong into black magic. But what can this matter? The Voodoos and the Dugpas eat, drink and are merry over heca-tombs of victims of their infernal arts. And so do the amiable gentlemen vivisectionists and the diploma-ed "Hypnotizers" of the Faculties of Medicine; tube only difference between the two classes being that the Voodoos and Dugpas areconscious, and the Charcot-Richet crew unconscious, Sorcerers. Thus, sinceboth have to reap the fruits of their labours and achievements in the black art, the Western practitioners should not have the punishment and reputation without the profits and enjoyments they may get therefrom. For we say it again, hypnotism and vivisection as practiced in such schools, are schools, are Sorcery pure and simple, minus a knowledge that the Voodoos and Dugpas enjoy, and which no Charcot-Richet can procure for himself in fifty years of hard study and experimental observation. Let then those who will dabble in magic, whether they understand its nature or not, but who find the rules imposed upon students too hard, and who, therefore lay Atma-Vidya or Occultism aside--go without it. Let them become magicians by all means, even though they do become Voodoos and Dugpas for the next ten incarnations. "

7. 
Steve wrote on parapsychology:
The CIA was actually experimenting with that at one
> time, supposedly.

A question: 
What are the closet we today can come to public evidence of that if any ?

8. UN-meetings shouldn't (at present) start of by declaring that most religious leaders are corrupt. That wouldn't do anyhting good.

9. Yes, the third party is there. But that is so small. I was considering abig party.
Woody Allen, what has he to do with religion, Christ and the like? 
Freud ? (All right Freud is said to have been a rosicrucian - secretly thatis. But that will not move USA, right ?)

Maybe it is all a phallic thing.
When will USA have a she-President ?


Feel free to comment.

from
M. Sufilight with readings...














----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Steve Stubbs" <stevestubbs@yahoo.com>
To: <theos-talk@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2002 11:42 PM
Subject: Re: Theos-World Germany: to protect or not to protect?


> Morten: "The following from the above page are putting
> LaRouche's efforts in a more strong light :
> 
> Thanks for your thoughtful comments. The citation you
> give from Larouche shows that he is a conspiracy
> theorist, which makes it hard to derive much from his
> writing. He combines statements which are certainly
> true (J. Edgar Hoover was a dangerous man) with
> nonsense and slipshod logic, so that it is difficult
> to derive any reliable information from him. No,
> there is no credible evidence that King was shot by
> anyone but James Earl Ray. The fact that he survived
> (which Oswald did not) shows that.
> 
> Larouche, quoted by Morten: "[55] If you think
> seriously about the matter, Martin Luther King was the
> person best qualified, personally, to become President
> in 1968, and should have become President, had he
> lived, in 1972 or 1976.
> 
> He might have had a good shot by 1980 but 1972 was the
> wrong time for a King Presidential bid IMO.
> 
> Larouche, quoted by Morten: "He had proven his
> capability of pulling most of the nation together for
> the purpose of justice for all of the people, a rare
> quality among candidates of the recent three decades."
> 
> That is what he did not have. He was certainly a
> leader, but his appeal was not as broad as JFK's or
> LBJ's.
> 
> Morten: "Nixon ? just make you laugh when
> compared....>:?) ("I am no crook !")
> 
> Yes, people have been making fun of that line for
> years.
> 
> Morten: "But this website although interesting is not
> quite following King's ideas on non?voilence!
> 
> Actually, those were Gandhi's ideas. One of King's
> sayings was: "Christ gave me the message, Gandhi gave
> me the method."
> 
> Morten: "What about some honest UN?meetings on the
> world?religions role in the world of politics and
> greed? 
> 
> I have not noticed that religious leaders are free
> from greed. A priest novelist named Greeley once
> categorized his own employer (the cardinals of the RC
> church) as "heirs to 2,000 years of corruption." The
> Palestinians are being oppressed in the name of a
> religion which deserves better than to be used that
> way INO. OBL is using another religion to turn people
> into murderers. Starting with the Jim Bakker and
> Jimmy Swaggart scandals, various hokey preachers have
> been exposed for what they really are right and left. 
> For awhile there it seemed as if every clown with a
> minicam who could say "Hallelujah" without laughing
> out loud was ordaining himself. I am not sure you can
> expect much from that quarter based on past
> performance.
> 
> Morten: "I can of course not really agree with
> LaRouche ? because I am a hardcore Theosophist. But
> there is certainly some issues of his, which deserves
> closer attention
> 
> Yes, and the problem with Larouche is, you never know
> when the bullshit ends and the truth begins or vice
> versa. That is why I would prefer to learn from
> someone else more reputable. I am open to the
> possibility that Rothschild financed the Holocaust,
> for example, (his ancestors financed the war against
> Napoleon, even though Napoleon emancipated the Jews)
> but would not believe this just because some character
> like Larouche says so. I would have to see something
> more credible than that. With all the reputable
> historians in the world it makes no sense to pay the
> conspiracy theorists any mind.
> 
> Morten: "What do the readers have on the "Dugpas" (the
> negative forces) of today in certain political and
> financial cirlces ?
> 
> Slobodan is in custody in Holland. The Commandant of
> Unit 101 is still free, but political dugpas generally
> seem to be temporarily in retreat. There has been a
> long term trend toward more democratic and benevolent
> government. There were no more than half a dozen
> democracies in the world in 1914.
> 
> Morten: "Are there Clairvoyants employed in different
> national "Intelligence" circles ?
> 
> The CIA was actually experimenting with that at one
> time, supposedly.
> 
> Morten: "You probably know H. P. Blavatsky several
> times stated, that one shouldn't underestimate the
> work of the Dugpa's and their existence.
> 
> I never have understood that since the Dugpas are a
> Buddhist sect in Bhutan who have produced numerous
> saints.
> 
> Morten: "A new Congress ? with 3 parties would do
> better than the present one.
> 
> There is a Libertarian Party but they are very small. 
> The two dozen or so others are much smaller.
> 
> You may remember Pat Paulsen ran for President a few
> years ago as a write in candidate. His campaign
> slogan was "We Can't Stand Pat!" Sounds good to me,
> but unfortunately the voters took that slogan the
> wrong way. I think I am the only one who voted for
> him. Woody Allen never runs anymore, so I can't find
> a candidate I like.
> 
> --- Morten Sufilight <global-theosophy@adslhome.dk>
> wrote:
> > 
> > Hi all of you,
> > 
> > Thanks Frank for your email.
> > I read with interest the link :
> >
> http://www.larouchepub.com/lar/2000/lar_bad_guy_2710.html
> > 
> > Some views:
> > 
> > The following from the above page are putting
> > LaRouche's efforts in a more strong light :
> > 
> > "Traditionally, as the case of the assassination of
> > a J. Edgar Hoover-targetted Martin Luther King
> > attests,[55] oligarchies and their menial lackeys do
> > not wait until an insolent specimen becomes a
> > serious threat to the oligarchy's arrangements, as
> > Presidential pre-candidate Robert Kennedy did; the
> > oligarchs tend to order them killed before they
> > might have the chance to develop, to become a
> > serious threat. With the oligarchs and their
> > lackeys, that is partly a matter of instinct: the
> > instinct to kill what they dislike. Among cleverer
> > managers of the political herd, there is a more
> > cultivated motive for such killings and kindred
> > enterprises in culling the popular herd."
> > 
> > And [55] :
> > 
> > "[55] If you think seriously about the matter,
> > Martin Luther King was the person best qualified,
> > personally, to become President in 1968, and should
> > have become President, had he lived, in 1972 or
> > 1976. He had proven his capability of pulling most
> > of the nation together for the purpose of justice
> > for all of the people, a rare quality among
> > candidates of the recent three decades."
> > 
> > 
> > This calls for some afterthought. I think so because
> > of the time 1968, King and his very special
> > situation, and the religious-political manner in
> > which he acted.......King had rare qualities
> > indeed...
> > 
> > Nixon - just make you laugh when compared....>:-)
> > ("I am no crook !")
> > Try read King's Vietnam speech ! Well, try....
> > http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/45a/058.html
> > (Speech)
> >
> http://www.therationalradical.com/dsep02/01/martin-king.htm
> > (Speeches and quotes - making it clear, that King
> > was also aiming at the economics of USA and other
> > countries. But this website although interesting is
> > not quite following King's ideas on non-voilence!)
> >
> http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Lobby/2217/mlk.htm
> > (Try for instance Real Player - audio - with 
> > "Beyond Vietnam" - at the bottom of the page. - The
> > online text above has been edited.)
> > 
> > Here is an excerpt from King's speech: 
> > "I am convinced that if we are to get on the right
> > side of the world revolution, we as a nation must
> > undergo a radical revolution of values. We must
> > rapidly begin the shift from a "thing-oriented"
> > society to a "person-oriented" society. When
> > machines and computers, profit motives and property
> > rights are considered more important than people,
> > the giant triplets of racism, materialism, and
> > militarism are incapable of being conquered. " 
> > (beyond Vietnam 4th april 1967;) (Exactly - one year
> > later he was shot, april 4th 1968).
> > (A personal remark: My big sister and one of her
> > daughters have birthday on april 4th.)
> > 
> > I wonder what the US-congress of today have on this
> > excerpt. Even EU-countries and other countries could
> > learn form this. 
> > What about some honest UN-meetings on the
> > world-religions role in the world of politics and
> > greed ? 
> > 
> > I can of course not really agree with LaRouche -
> > because I am a hardcore Theosophist. But there is
> > certainly some issues of his, which deserves closer
> > attention - while we carry on our work for peace.
> > Especially the peace-issues...
> > 
> > Politicians of today are not doing strong enough
> > efforts to deal with this very dangerous or
> > problematic issue 'peace'. And even Religious
> > leaders are doing almost nothing.
> > God know's where such a situation will lead
> > everyone....
> > And the media's - Tv's and Newspapers --- are
> > hilarious.
> > 
> > The Internet is better. Where that will lead the
> > young coming politicians, we can only guess. Try
> > this one on this:
> >
> http://www.euractiv.com/cgi-bin/cgint.exe/1266977-431?targ=1&204&OIDN=1503733&-home=home
> > (At the july 2002 Youth EU-Convention-meeting a
> > group condemmed EU for certain issues :
> > "One quarter of the Youth Convention members signed
> > a protest memorandum, condemning the Youth
> > Convention as "unrepresentative and undemocratic"
> > due to the way it elected its leadership. This group
> > claims that Youth Convention was dominated by the
> > Youth Forum, who has the Presidium and the majority
> > of the Youth Convention members. The dissident group
> > warned that the Youth Convention has "limited
> > legitimacy" and is "unrepresentative of the young
> > people of Europe". " )
> > That adults arranged it to be undemocratic - just
> > shows the state of affairs.
> > 
> > It is good to know, that the Masters exists and that
> > the Avatar-principle exists. It is good to know,
> > that the masters and the avatar or avatar-principle
> > are not fooled so easily.
> > There are really spiritual forces at play - also in
> > the political areas.
> > 
> > What do the readers have on the "Dugpas" (the
> > negative forces) of today in certain political and
> > financial cirlces ?
> > Are there Clairvoyants employed in different
> > national "Intelligence" circles ? 
> > (The US-Senate seems interested in ESP and
> > parapsychology - while they grant money for research
> > etc.)
> > 
> > You probably know H. P. Blavatsky several times
> > stated, that one shouldn't underestimate the work of
> > the Dugpa's and their existence.
> > 
> > I will have to say, that if a proper number of
> > people would build up - a religious-political agenda
> > - backing the ideas of Martin Luther King Jr. this
> > Planet would feel more comfortable. A new Congress -
> > with 3 parties would do better than the present one.
> > Or maybe a more Theosophical agenda could do the
> > trick ?
> > But I am not sure, that this would be the best
> > solution. People have a tendency to learn or react
> > slowly on this planet.
> > 
> > Non-voilence pays !
> > And Wall-Street hearing it - shake all over.
> > 
> > Run for Avatar-hood !
> > 
> > The above are just views among many.
> > 
> > Feel free to comment...
> > 
> > from
> > M. Sufilight with peace and love...
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: "Frank Reitemeyer" <dhyana@web.de>
> > To: <theos-talk@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Monday, July 15, 2002 3:23 AM
> > Subject: Re: Theos-World Germany: to protect or not
> > to protect?
> > 
> > 
> > > Steve:
> > > It may not be apparent from Germany, but Lyndon
> > Larouche is a well known nut
> > > case.
> > > 
> > > Bart:
> > > And felon; he spent time in jail for credit card
> > fraud.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Frank:
> > > COMPARE this with LaRouche's side of the story and
> > how the US Nazi
> > > establishment tried to assassinate him at:
> > > 
> > >
> >
> http://www.larouchepub.com/lar/2000/lar_bad_guy_2710.html
> > > 
> > >
> >
> http://www.schillerinstitute.org/exon/ramseyclark_ltr_95.html
> > > 
> > > 
> > >  
> > > 
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> > > 
> > > 
> > 
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > 
> === message truncated ===
> 
> 
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