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RE: LEARNING and THINKING -- copyi ng

Apr 09, 2002 05:41 AM
by dalval14

Tuesday, April 09, 2002

Re: "Plagiarism" Are we sure what we copy is true?
What is our real motive ?
Why do we select "Leaders ?" Dos it help? How ?

Dear Sufilight:

No book, whether Theosophical, or Bible, or ancient literature,
does more than expose the thinking of some older individuals and
their experiences and thought to present scrutiny and thinking.
Some are valuable and some have been so mangled by translators or
interested parties that they have lost their pristine quality and
are but the shreds of the original message.

Kipling wrote in part (IF)

"If you can bear to hear the truths you've spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,

We need to ask plainly: What does any writing, or speech, or
opinion do? Does it really matter who originated a phrase, or an
idea? The only value of those are that they serve to convey
TRUTHS to others. If we are interested in conveying TRUTH, then
we use the best phrases and words available. And sometimes two
minds will use identical terms.

Leibnitz and Newton developed Calculus simultaneously -- who
copied who ? What is, important ? -- The CALCULUS, as a tool,
or the name of the person who re-introduced an old mathematical
fact and truth to modern minds ?

We are obsessed with claims for originality, and being the
"first." It is pitiful. Does any one seriously think that the
mathematical formulae and equations of calculus never existed in
the records of our UNIVERSE before these two great minds put it
before their contemporaries ? Is it terribly important to use a
few words that are different to convey and idea when someone has
already devised them -- and, we forgot the name of that person so
as to give them credit? At that rate there would be very little

Another thought? Science in every department diligently
investigate Nature. The discoveries that have been made are
merely the establishing of the facts which Mother NATURE placed
there to support Life. There is no novelty in truth, but there
is the thrill of re-discovering what nature had the WISDOM TO PUT

Now if the plagiarist deliberately employed another's work to
underline their personal position in the eyes of his readers or
followers, then that motive is the one that is suspect. But to
attribute such a motive to another is in my esteem a waste of
time -- at least if I am in search of facts and truths. I want
to know, and I do not care who did th work first. I would
applaud a writer who used another's thoughts or words to convey
truths -- I will assume in some cases the writer may not be aware
that they were chosen and framed a priori. Let the best word she
used to convey the most accurate rendering of facts.

Every one of us has to learn to think independently and choose
such fundamental ideas as the touchstones which are universal,
impersonal, adequately explained, and have NO AUTHORITY built
into them.

Take the writings of H P B and of the Masters whom I love to
quote, because to me, and my examination, they pass the test of
reasonableness -- they never asked us to BELIEVE them . They
consistently ask that we examine, test, and see if they make the
grade of COMMON SENSE.

The problem with great declarations, and with the words offered
by "leaders" whether actually spiritual, or self-styled
individuals who desire to profit from the gullibility of others,
is that WE have to do the work of proving their worth. We have
to think them out.

For instance, why accept anything I write? How does anyone find
out if it is useful? don't they have to out it in mind and
compare with experience and like a mathematical puzzle or
equation, work out its truth its plausibility or its

In philosophy we are dealing with the capacity of the average
human mind to reason, to inquire, to delve into the potentials of
observation, and the records (which we hope are truthful) of
others who served as observers and recorders. WE TAKE THE
RESPONSIBILITY OF acceptance or of rejection all the time.

The true nature of our own evolution is the development of our
capacity to know, to compare, and to think things out. that is
what the state of being human means.--an independence born from
the more or less certainty that inside each human there is an
immortal "Ray" of the ONE SPIRIT. and, that ONE SPIRIT is
everywhere -- as is the concept of "God." But, unlike a
"personal god," the rule of Nature is just, true, fair, merciful,
compassionate, universal, impartial, all-knowing and is therefore

Now if you wish, or elect to give to a "leader,' or one who
claims "authority" the right to direct your thought you achieve
precisely nothing more than the average parishioner who blindly
goes to church or to the temple, and there spends an hour or so
of complete inattention and boredom, because his community and
family expect him to comply with their ideas of what is "proper."
It is like joining a club. It is like doing things by rote.

Most people went to school, to college, or today, take "classes"
in things they can learn from books -- if they know where and how
to find and select them. If you recall your own school years
there were a few subjects you "liked." And, many that bored you
to tears. Why was that so ? In what way was your learning
impaired? (Or perhaps, yours never was that way, and you had a
built-in hunger to acquire any information that came your way.)
Why was the urge to learn and become broad-minded dulled? Who
dulled it? Why were the challenges of those years not met and
overcome? and so on... We each, can recall a number of things
which we wish we had never done -- and the time lost cannot be
recaptured now. But now we are aware, we can begin to make

Now here comes the barrier of time. We fancy ourselves limited
by the ending of this present life. If we had the idea of
IMMORTALITY for the Mind/soul/spirit which is the REAL MAN, then
the time to change, to learn is ALL THE TIME. Beginning right

So, in reality, the first thing for all of us, is to known where
wisdom and accurate facts can be secured. Then we have to do the
study and the comparing. Then we have to put our knowledge to
the test, perhaps ask others to see if they achieved similar
results -- and then comes the real test: PUT IT INTO

You ask about our modern theosophical writers, leaders, and
students. Each student is a light unto himself. The
"authorities" hinder far more than they help. They ought to
direct student's attention to the ORIGINAL TEACHINGS OF
THEOSOPHY -- to the direct words of Masters' Messenger H P B.
and to what the Masters themselves wrote. They ought to
recommend study, and work. Do they do that ?

They ought to ease out of any kind of control. Their main task
is to pur students and members on their own two feet and sever
any dependence on them as "leaders" or "officers." Is this
advocating anarchy? No The original purposes of the
visible or put into effect. Why ? Has it been forgotten?

There is far more theosophical activity among those who are
independent thinkers and seekers than among those who have
adopted the title of "Theosophist" and do not read or study or
apply what is clearly set down. They have joined a "club" and
are anxious to remain members therein. It is a case of the
"lowest common denominator," and not the "highest common

This does not mean that all "leaders" and all 'Officers" are
either useless or are not learned. There are many who are. They
would say and act as I have depicted above. And around them
there has grown a true respect for their integrity, and energy,
and devotion They are true example of students who lead and
practice the THEOSOPHIC LIFE. All homage and respect to them.
They point, not to themselves, but to the Messengers: H P B and
W Q J. They point to the Masters. they advocate individual
study and work. There you will find Theosophy blooming and to
them the most energetic and self-sacrificing students flock and
adhere and work -- because they are shining examples of
impersonality and devotion to the great CAUSE. They are not in
search of followers, nor do they apply the rules and regulations
of an organization. They recommend that individuals devise their
own in the broadest and freest manner that our Universe and World
can provide -- in short, that we all act for and as the SELF OF

The primary position for everyone is always : IS IT TRUE ? CAN

Best wishes,



-----Original Message-----
From: M Sufilight
Sent: Sunday, April 07, 2002 4:23 PM
Subject: Re: "plagiarisms" . . . ?

Hi Dallas and all of you,

All right Dallas.

But I don't think you answer my questions and statements. You
didn't address the issue clearly. To me you just sort of
sidestepped instead, and made some comments on the eternal truths

'Biblical' study in the manner as I mentioned it in my previous
email - I hope we agree on this are not Theosophy - in the term
ancient wisdom teaching of all ages.

But, what are the teachers in a number of theosophical
organizations and groups of today doing about it ?

My view is:
They keep continue their silly act of putting the books of
Theosophy forward as a kind of 'bible-collection' - and avoid
addressing the crucial issues of dead-letter reading and the
importance of the "7 keys" - where one of the is about the to
Blavatsky very important allegories.
Such a behavior I consider to be against the idea of Theosophy as
Blavatsky was putting it forward.

Should a teacher of Theosophy not seek to avoid this ?

Suflight with anti-dogamtic views...


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