Theos-Talk Archives (October 2001 Message tt00259)

Thursday, October 18, 2001

Re "God" Who, Where What How ?
and Man's FREEDOM of MIND

Dear Etzion:


May I be allowed to break in (as the question has always
intrigued me) and, do some speculation on this question, using
what little I have learned from THEOSOPHY to ask questions in
general of all of us for the help that may be available.? Any
consideration on this might be useful for us all.

Surely the etymological derivation of "GOD, " as a word, is well
known and is descended through many language variants from
antiquity.

The real question is: What does the word "GOD" imply: I mean,
can we define or measure to some extent the character, faculties,
principles, and activities of an entity to which the word "God"
is made to respond? Is this GOD master of this Earth? Of the
Solar System? Of the Milky Way Galaxy? of the totality of the
entire UNIVERSE ?


And if our Earth is a relatively puny globe in the infinitudes of
our UNIVERSE, is our conception of GOD the only valid one? Are
Science and Religion at rivalry and opponents here?


Who has precedence? Are the hidden laws of life and relationship
which Science uncovers day by day (inherent in Earth and Nature)
the result of GOD' s will or are they the natural system that the
universal Evolutionary process sets down -- for all Earths,
Humans, atoms, and other systems large and small, visible and
invisible ?


[ I have always felt that when someone sys" It is God's will"
that they have ceased investigating, and are opening themselves
to take in another's opinion on "faith," or "blind belief."
Personally, this concept has always annoyed me. I have always
felt that if "God made me," He did it for a purpose. And it is
up to me to discover this purpose while I am alive and able to do
so. To be told that I am trying to swim beyond my depth also
annoys me, because if I can swim then the depth of the Ocean does
not matter so long as I stay on top (to breathe) and do not
venture too far from shore, or a boat or a raft, where I can
secure rest and food.]


I take that these, as the manifestation of wither Law or chance,
and whims, broadly, are what you mean by "God's Will."

Specifically when we get to studying the human psychology the
definitions become more difficult to define: We find there is
thought and intuition. Then there is desire and passions. There
is the power to recognize Law, Justice, Mercy, Grace and Faith.
But definitions become personal and their regularization is a
lengthy affair and quite indefinite when we get down to cases.
Yet, there is some order and categories of interaction can be
generally defined.


Can we not, for instance, broadly say: "Evil" is the breaking of
the law of Brotherhood in dealing with others. It is a choice.
"Good" is the harmonizing with the most noble and altruistic
aspects of living,


The question of "self-interest" interposes itself here. But it
needs definition. What self? are we talking of ? The "elf of
matter" and form, and of the impermanent personality that dies
in about 50 to 90 years? Or are we talking of the potentially
"eternal SELF" which is the repository of the sense of "I-ness,"
and of WISDOM, and of all the virtues ?

If this concept of "God" is held forth in whatever language,
time or people, to mean that they are unable to trace the laws
and rules of events to which they are made subject, (or observers
of) then it is a definition of their ignorance. It gives room
for growth in learning. If so, what is the ultimate culmination
of such learning?

And how, (unless Reincarnation of the Spirit / Soul is a
continuous and valid process) does the cumulation of such data.
knowledge get recorded and used by the individual?

I think the evidence of independence within a vast supportive
system is clear. I would not employ a concept or word like "God"
unless I had exhausted all the possible answers to discovering my
reasons for personal existence and the powers that I have (in
actual use or in potential, to be discovered and used).

And why would this be presumptuous? By definition He is
OMNIPRESENT. so he is present in all of us, in you, in me right
now and is aware of what is being thought and written by all.
There is no room for secrets if God is OMNISCIENT. and if He
dislikes something then in his OMNIPOTENCE he will do whatever is
necessary to adjust and rectify -- and does not need priests,
prayers or intercessors., Each Human (as all other beings) by
these definitions which are found in all religions, new or old,
provide these paradoxical fact, which taken as true are very
reassuring to the man whose life is virtuous.

Omnipresence, omniscience and omnipotence are the three
attributes of God we find in all religions. If that is so, then
there is a unity -- a brotherhood of religions that is more of a
fact that the apparent diversity everyone is aware of
superficially. We need to familiarize ones-self with other
religions: BHAGAVAD GITA (Krishna - Hindu), DHAMMAPADA
(Buddhist), the TORAH (Judaism), The SERMON ON THE MOUNT, and the
BEATITUDES (Christianity), AL KORAN (Islam), the VOICE OF THE
SILENCE (Theosophy), etc.. These are basic texts, and if
compared, the similarities of the virtues and suggested
observances, (addressed to the free mind of all humans) will be
apparent.

Logically we reach, and are forced to the conclusion, that the
"Personal God" of many, is in actuality the UNIVERSAL ONE and
IMPERSONAL GOD of the PHILOSOPHER (of the "Lover of Truth"). The
divisions that Religions make out of their lore and traditions
are when studied to their core found to agree on many more points
than they disagree on.

If "God" [as a Personal Being of unlimited power and whimsical
decisions] is a fact, then why is man endowed with all the
godlike potentials if he is not to use them? Is the gift of life
and awareness so precious and invaluable that life in this
physical body ( in which, as we grow older is enfeebled) that men
are supposed to try to violate many laws they sense are innate in
their conscience to continue to live in a worn out vehicle?

But first (I would say) one has to assume that the universe, our
word, and ourselves are all under some rules and regulations
which are universal, immutable and impersonal. Can this be
proved.

Continuing this process of observation / questioning: What (and
Who) are WE who make the questions? What are our faculties,
character, principles and activities, and add to this: Why are
we here? Why do we ask these questions?

I would say we do all this because there is in us an aspect of
perception and Intelligence which is capable of investigating any
level of Nature (The Universe), and the cause for any being in
it.

This is a very broad capacity. Why does Humanity seem to provide
a vehicle for it?

The Question then arises: Where does accumulated Knowledge and
its application as WISDOM become a faculty that the REAL MAN in
each of us can direct ?

Further this level of capacity (Perception and Questioning) in us
is something that each shares.

Can these questions and analytical answers be sequentially placed
on paper for reference?

I am not asking for explanations of their presence merely the
notice that they are exist and can be looked into.

For the purpose of analysis I originally set up a sheet of paper
like this -- and have added many sheets since.

=======================================================

QUESTIONS	GOD	MAN

-----------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------

Proof of Existence ?

Origin ?

Range of Power?

Qualities?

Virtues ?

Vices ?

Progress in Time ?

History?

Potential Future?

Discussion ?

Principles and synthesis ?

Omnipresence ?

Omniscience ?

Omnipotence ?


PROBABLE CONCLUSIONS


ALTERATIONS AND CHANGES



[ Keep plenty of room for additions and revision as the years
pass an study progresses.]


===================================

I found that filling in these questions and divisions focused
study and also brought to light some valuable facts and areas of
ignorance for me. This study never seems to end.


Best wishes,

Dallas

=====================================





-----Original Message-----
From: E B ]
Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2001 11:34 PM
To:
Subject: Re: God's will ???? how to find it?


E B WRITES:
*God* is a man made phrase. My view (at least for today, tomorrow
is another
day), that *God* is who we are collectively. At this Earthly
phase of
action, we can experience *Godhood* only if we would function
together with
perfect accord. Just imagine a team of workers building a house
easily and
smoothly, without the usuall screams, without tensions, without
greed. With
loving smiles, building it not in order to gain comforts and
profit, but for
those who need it. Such a crew (quite utopian, I bet), would
experience
COLLECTIVELY a higher state of consciousness. If the entire
humankind would
be able to function with complete harmony, they would have the
COLLECTIVE
experience of one *Lord*, or what we also call a Perfect Master.
Such one
person is equal to entire humankind, consciousness wise. What you
can gather
from this, is that this state is to be experienced, not
theorized. The
various true *mystical* schools of wisdom have been attempting to
train
their pupils along these lines. Moses tried to train an entire
nation to
function along these lines, of forming the heavenly Circles back
on Earth;
Jesus tried to teach His disciples how to form a sacred Circle.
Etc. Inspite
of the collective failure on the part of humankind to follow the
easy ways
of the Gods, and choosing what you see now on Earth, which is the
deliberate
decision of humankind, the *Gods* who achieved this state of
perfection
nevertheless, helping us to gain this state inspite of our
rebellions. All
best wishes. Etzion

N O S WRITES:


> Are you differentiating between god and yourself?
>
> Is god an entity ?
>

CUT