Theos-Talk Archives (October 2001 Message tt00323)

I feel somewhat embarrassed for attempting to answer these questions - I am
not a scholar, noר a person who read tons of books of wisdom, I simply share
my personal views, which spring from my experience of sharing what I can
call "The Divine Hierarchy" call it God, if you please.


> Thursday, October 18, 2001
>
> Re "God" Who, Where What How ?
> and Man's FREEDOM of MIND
>
> Dear Etzion:
>
>
> May I be allowed to break in (as the question has always
> intrigued me) and, do some speculation on this question, using
> what little I have learned from THEOSOPHY to ask questions in
> general of all of us for the help that may be available.? Any
> consideration on this might be useful for us all.
>
> Surely the etymological derivation of "GOD, " as a word, is well
> known and is descended through many language variants from
> antiquity.
>
> The real question is: What does the word "GOD" imply: I mean,
> can we define or measure to some extent the character, faculties,
> principles, and activities of an entity to which the word "God"
> is made to respond? Is this GOD master of this Earth? Of the
> Solar System? Of the Milky Way Galaxy? of the totality of the
> entire UNIVERSE ?

In order to express my view, I think I must go down to basics: I possess a
*body* which I didn't do anything to create, a perfect vehicle, accurate to
the last atom. I guess that you know that science knows today that the body
knows how to count the number of its atoms at any given moment, i.e. each
cell controlls the amount of matter it needs at any given moment, and all
these componenets work together with perfect accord and precision. This
vehicle was designed and created by Perfect Intelligence, with Infiniote
control, which is the simple consequence of such like *understanding*. I
poke fun at this *understanding*, because together with this body, there
some kind of mind, some kind of organ, which can think and evaluate things,
but very, very limited. I can see what it does when I produce something
materially. If my body would break down at the rate my car breaks down,
taking in account the number of componenets the machine contains, my body
wouldn't move and inch. How can I fathom, then, the Infinite Intelligence
which provided me all this? What is the difference the name I refer to *it*?
Call it God, for the sake of convenience. So what I have to do when I wake
up to this reality, and why I have to *wake up* to begin with? What all this
mystery about? I think I quite quickly from the beginning (30 years ago),
felt part and parcel of the mechanism, if you can call it so, of that
Infinite Intelligence. I felt very close to it, in a most personal sense,
but this was not anything mystical nor supernatural. It has been simple
personal communion. I felt closely related to a Super Being, who guided me
with infinite compassion and patience along the lines of serving humanity.
>From the minute I *woke up* I didn't care about my personal spiritual
achievement, but for the sake of my brothers and sisters in ignorance. I
felt as if I found a wonderful treasure, and I wanted to share it with them.
*God* for me is an entire *mechanism*, sorry for not having the right word,
which creates, guides and cares for all souls who emerge from the
subconscious realms and proceed towards being fully conscious. It is an
ageless saga, which have never sytarted and will never end, and I (as all of
us) has been part and parcel of this process. We all part of this divine
mechanism. I see endless states of responsibility along the lines of this
divine machinery, culminating with a Supreme Being, who rules all this. This
is my personal experience, not a learned philosophy.


>
>
> And if our Earth is a relatively puny globe in the infinitudes of
> our UNIVERSE, is our conception of GOD the only valid one? Are
> Science and Religion at rivalry and opponents here?


See all this, our limited mind, the by product of the universe, is trying to
figure out the universe. Our little sad globe is an arena for achieving
spiritual maturity, as i learnt from the great Ones, the only place in the
universe where the heart and the mind aspects of Man can come to balance.
>
>
> Who has precedence? Are the hidden laws of life and relationship
> which Science uncovers day by day (inherent in Earth and Nature)
> the result of GOD' s will or are they the natural system that the
> universal Evolutionary process sets down -- for all Earths,
> Humans, atoms, and other systems large and small, visible and
> invisible ?

I see a guiding hand through all this, - but no doubt, there are Beings who
are interested of helping us, inspite of being on an important planet, it is
sadly mentally deranged.
>
> [ I have always felt that when someone sys" It is God's will"
> that they have ceased investigating, and are opening themselves
> to take in another's opinion on "faith," or "blind belief."
> Personally, this concept has always annoyed me. I have always
> felt that if "God made me," He did it for a purpose. And it is
> up to me to discover this purpose while I am alive and able to do
> so. To be told that I am trying to swim beyond my depth also
> annoys me, because if I can swim then the depth of the Ocean does
> not matter so long as I stay on top (to breathe) and do not
> venture too far from shore, or a boat or a raft, where I can
> secure rest and food.]

What is God's Will then? Again, it is something most personal. Blind belief
doesn't work here. *My* God wants clever, intelligent, loving compassionate
people to do His work. What is His work? To take care of all those realms
which are *under* us, consciousness wise, of course. I can uplift the state
of consciousness of those who are willing, till a certain degree. I can
introduce to my garden loving hands while pruning it, I don't force myself
on these beings, I offer an opportunities for my pets to experience love and
compassion, attributes which are so much lacking in this realm, which is
man's failure.
>
>
> I take that these, as the manifestation of wither Law or chance,
> and whims, broadly, are what you mean by "God's Will."
>
> Specifically when we get to studying the human psychology the
> definitions become more difficult to define: We find there is
> thought and intuition. Then there is desire and passions. There
> is the power to recognize Law, Justice, Mercy, Grace and Faith.
> But definitions become personal and their regularization is a
> lengthy affair and quite indefinite when we get down to cases.
> Yet, there is some order and categories of interaction can be
> generally defined.
>
>
> Can we not, for instance, broadly say: "Evil" is the breaking of
> the law of Brotherhood in dealing with others. It is a choice.
> "Good" is the harmonizing with the most noble and altruistic
> aspects of living,

Here is exactly what I was saying before, that in order to experience the
God State, we have to work together with unison. We can make a chice here,
and we did, sometime ago in the past, to turn our backs on the Divine
Machinery and to try to make it on our own, and see the results.
>
>
> The question of "self-interest" interposes itself here. But it
> needs definition. What self? are we talking of ? The "self of
> matter" and form, and of the impermanent personality that dies
> in about 50 to 90 years? Or are we talking of the potentially
> "eternal SELF" which is the repository of the sense of "I-ness,"
> and of WISDOM, and of all the virtues ?

If I can refer again to this Infinite Intelligence, I can see young,
ignorant souls on the planet, more souls of the more sophsticated ones, but
still shrouded with ignorance, and very few how have some sense of true
purpose. I trust we belong to the latter one. Then we can help those folks,
till a certain degree to distinguish between the *self*, the temporary,
limited being, and the infinite being, which seeks its infinite expression.
>
> If this concept of "God" is held forth in whatever language,
> time or people, to mean that they are unable to trace the laws
> and rules of events to which they are made subject, (or observers
> of) then it is a definition of their ignorance. It gives room
> for growth in learning. If so, what is the ultimate culmination
> of such learning?

To mesh with the Divine Design.
>
> And how, (unless Reincarnation of the Spirit / Soul is a
> continuous and valid process) does the cumulation of such data.
> knowledge get recorded and used by the individual?

When one becomes conscious part and parcel of this Divine Machinery, those
God Beings who are incharge of you, will guide you and will provide your
needs for the next role you are going to play on Earth.
>
> I think the evidence of independence within a vast supportive
> system is clear. I would not employ a concept or word like "God"
> unless I had exhausted all the possible answers to discovering my
> reasons for personal existence and the powers that I have (in
> actual use or in potential, to be discovered and used).
>
> And why would this be presumptuous? By definition He is
> OMNIPRESENT. so he is present in all of us, in you, in me right
> now and is aware of what is being thought and written by all.
> There is no room for secrets if God is OMNISCIENT. and if He
> dislikes something then in his OMNIPOTENCE he will do whatever is
> necessary to adjust and rectify -- and does not need priests,
> prayers or intercessors., Each Human (as all other beings) by
> these definitions which are found in all religions, new or old,
> provide these paradoxical fact, which taken as true are very
> reassuring to the man whose life is virtuous.

Very true.
>
> Omnipresence, omniscience and omnipotence are the three
> attributes of God we find in all religions. If that is so, then
> there is a unity -- a brotherhood of religions that is more of a
> fact that the apparent diversity everyone is aware of
> superficially. We need to familiarize ones-self with other
> religions: BHAGAVAD GITA (Krishna - Hindu), DHAMMAPADA
> (Buddhist), the TORAH (Judaism), The SERMON ON THE MOUNT, and the
> BEATITUDES (Christianity), AL KORAN (Islam), the VOICE OF THE
> SILENCE (Theosophy), etc.. These are basic texts, and if
> compared, the similarities of the virtues and suggested
> observances, (addressed to the free mind of all humans) will be
> apparent.

All these are past efforts on the parts of the God Beings who consistently
try to wake us up for our destiny. Ignorant humans take advantage of the
power contains in their teaschings for self centered purposes - controlling
the masses and conditioning their minds.
>
> Logically we reach, and are forced to the conclusion, that the
> "Personal God" of many, is in actuality the UNIVERSAL ONE and
> IMPERSONAL GOD of the PHILOSOPHER (of the "Lover of Truth"). The
> divisions that Religions make out of their lore and traditions
> are when studied to their core found to agree on many more points
> than they disagree on.

Again, it is a most personal issue. As I said above, I feel most personal
communion, call it as you like.
>
> If "God" [as a Personal Being of unlimited power and whimsical
> decisions] is a fact, then why is man endowed with all the
> godlike potentials if he is not to use them? Is the gift of life
> and awareness so precious and invaluable that life in this
> physical body ( in which, as we grow older is enfeebled) that men
> are supposed to try to violate many laws they sense are innate in
> their conscience to continue to live in a worn out vehicle?

Again, my view has been, that in order to express and experience these
qualities, in this phase of being (man on earth), we must learn to work
together. I am aware that the Supreme Beings experience and express these
qualities on their own, but this is a different phase of being all together.
>
> But first (I would say) one has to assume that the universe, our
> world, and ourselves are all under some rules and regulations
> which are universal, immutable and impersonal. Can this be
> proved.
>
Yes, of course, when you mesh with God.


> Continuing this process of observation / questioning: What (and
> Who) are WE who make the questions? What are our faculties,
> character, principles and activities, and add to this: Why are
> we here? Why do we ask these questions?

We started to ask questions endless time ago, when we were unconscious and
were somehow seeking to wake up, but we even didn'y know that we want to
wake up to something. Eventually *someone* woke up, and gave rise to all
this creation.
>
> I would say we do all this because there is in us an aspect of
> perception and Intelligence which is capable of investigating any
> level of Nature (The Universe), and the cause for any being in
> it.
>
> This is a very broad capacity. Why does Humanity seem to provide
> a vehicle for it?

We have reached complete state of consciousness, as we can ask questions and
answer them, but still there is a thick fog which we created and it blocks
our natural experience with *God*.
>
> The Question then arises: Where does accumulated Knowledge and
> its application as WISDOM become a faculty that the REAL MAN in
> each of us can direct ?
>
> Further this level of capacity (Perception and Questioning) in us
> is something that each shares.
>
> Can these questions and analytical answers be sequentially placed
> on paper for reference?
>
> I am not asking for explanations of their presence merely the
> notice that they are exist and can be looked into.
>
I think the crux of all this leads us to a most personal decision - what are
we up to? Are we up for securing our self advancement or we dedicate
ourselves for the Cause of the Universe, which is helping all those endless
drop souls for attaining the higher state of understanding? In short, are we
living for the universe, or we are for the universe will live for us? we
have to make our minds. I think here lies the choice of living. All best
wishes, Etzion