Theos-Talk Archives (October 2001 Message tt00104)

Saturday, October 06, 2001


Dear Bruce:

To me ATMA-BUDDHI represents a spiritual force, as well as a PRESENCE.

It is the individualized MONAD -- an eternal being which in manifestation is
a trinity as the MIND stands midway between SPIRIT and PRIMORDIAL MATTER
(Buddhi) -- In fact the MIND is directly derived from the ABSOLUTE and hence
it can look both ways at SPIRIT and MATTER and perceive their interaction
and progress.

The dynamic and fiery force of FOHAT ( spiritual electricity ?) carries the
intelligence that is impersonal and universal into manifestation.

Mind serves as the link between the ever remote MONAD and the material forms
made up of the skandhas (or monads of lesser experience) that aggregate to
it.-- as a center from which they draw intelligence, life, and a program for
eventual self-purification by controlling the purely gross MATTER -- which
is KAMA -- desires and passions that oppose universal law.

I do not know if you will agree to this concept.

As to anthropomorphizing Kundalini. As I see it there is that aspect of its
7-fold nature which is UNIVERSAL and there is that which corresponds to and
animates the physical and the emotional.

Kundalini is also an aspect of KARMA -- I mean UNIVERSAL KARMA.. It is then
associated with Akasa, since Karma is one of the 7 divisions of Akasa as
well as of the “astral”

We are given the 7=fold division which is linear, but put on a surface, 7x
7 = 49 and we have the 49 “fires.” But if we put these into a cube of 7 x
7 x 7 = 343 we will begin to see how any of the 7 divisions has many
sub-divisions, and yet there are also cooperative and integrated. But to
avoid materializing, we have to remember that this is only an image, a
construct. made by a brain that is immersed in matter. (see S D I p. 142,
673, Trans. 113-4, S D II 700-1 )

Yet even this ;resent brain of ours can transcend its limits, as you well
point out, and as I understand it.

In another sense it is JIVA on the universal plane -- life energy inherent
in all beings and which alternately causes manifestation and its withdrawal
and rest. Yet, it ALWAYS IS.

I am trying to avoid materializing it. I am trying to look at it
metaphysically. I am saying to myself, what is this energy that also
resides in me. How do I know of it? How d I visualize it?

Fohat is not well grasped, is it? I believe it has something to do with our
will. If that is made pure, impersonal and universal then we can also make
it harmless to others. And that ought to be true magic -- the wisdom o
select the right words to convey ideas.

I thoroughly agree with you that Manas is the key. It has the capacity to
look both ways -- to BUDDHI and to KAMA. The whole purpose of evolution is
to extricate it (our Mind-tool) from delusion and illusion (Kama) and
universalize and impersonalize it by centering it in the virtues of the
wisdom of Buddhi.

Do we not employ will, kundalini, and Fohat in this process. We the
PERCEIVER have t learn to do this, don’t we ?

I guess I have a lot still to learn but nit is stimulating to receive the
encouragement you offer.

Many thanks as always

Dal

==========================

-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce F. MacDonald [mailto:bmacdonald@accesscomm.ca]
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2001 7:13 AM
To: Theosophy Study List
Subject: RE: Kundalini -- Is it ILLIMITABLE or is it LIMITED ? Who oe What
perceives Kundalini as a Force or a Mrthod?

Dallas,
You write about Kundalini,



The best understanding of what is implied in that Spiritual-Mental Force
named KUNDALINI is that it Works In A Spiral because of the universal laws
of analogy and correspondence. Nature does not waste energy by devising new
and different ways of construction when in the phase of manifestation.

Bruce: I would question your use of the term "Spiritual- Mental" force.
What do you mean by that? HPB in V of S says that Kundalini is a "fiery
Fohatic force" and "Buddhi in motion." That puts it in the range above the
Mental (Manas) plane, and hence not amenable to mental, logical analysis.
That it works in a spiral -- yes, that is what most texts say and is
consistent with the idea that everything comes into being through Motion
which forms circles, and through time, spirals, as the circles manifest on
higher and higher evolutionary levels.
I have some disagreement with what you say next:



Now the next question is Does Humanity in its units have and use Kundalini.
It is said to be creative. It lays down plans, methods, and helps to build
creatively.
Where does it find patterns ? It finds them In the many past events
recorded in the Akasa -- and those relate to Karma, both universal and
individual. Hence memory and accuracy of recording are essential if time
and energy are to be conserved.

Bruce: It seems like you are anthropomorphizing Kundalini a little too much
in what you say above in suggesting that "it lays down plans, methods, and
helps to build creativity" and then finds plans in the Akasa to do that.
If Kundalini is, as HPB says, Buddhi in motion, and Buddhi is the direct
manifestation of Atman, then through correspondence, it is also on the
cosmic plane the Fohatic force, which HPB also says. In this sense it would
not be necessary for Kundalini to "look" for plans in Akasa, from past
events, because it would then be an expression of the primal manifestation
of Atman/Brahman, not subject to previous Karma. In a sense, then,
Kundalini is the manifestation of the Universal emerging from Pralaya (if we
assume that this Manvantara did not start with a Big Bang but is continually
emerging within each of the Monads in the universe.)
All this would account for Kundalini having the dramatic
transformative effect that it does when activated. After all, as V of S
says, the Hall of Learning, Kama, etc must be destroyed and paralyzed for it
to function. It cannot build on plans from the past.



What are the material to be used? The MONADS of lesser experience who are
attracted by their nature to centers of constructive activity of various
kinds.

Bruce: The "material to be used" is not "material" but a "fiery Fohatic
force."



Who is the USER? Who directs the building? We all know that there are
many levels of architects in practical daily life and some are better than
others. What then establishes the highest and best of these? Is it not a
knowledge of materials? An aesthetic sense? A knowledge of how engineering
is best to be used in selecting materials and balancing a structure? In
fact a good architect combines a large number of arts and tries to use them
for a more efficient and better construction.

Bruce: I have the feeling here that you are being too materialistic in your
interpretation, seeing structures and engineering and building and users.
If the Kundalini is, as HPB suggests, Buddhi or a Fohatic Force, then we are
not dealing with materials in an engineering, structural way, but with lines
of force which change the nature of consciousness itself.



What is the Architect in us? Is it not the THINKER ? Is it not that
aspect of Mind that has access to the combined knowledge of various arts and
also is thoroughly familiar with the laws of their usage?

Bruce: There are Architects on various levels. The Linga Sarira is the
architect of the body. Manas is the architect of our present life as it
molds and shapes our karma through ideas, beliefs and thoughts. But there
is a higher Architect, according to V of S, and that is Buddhi, which at
some point can become active and change everything, in the same way as Fohat
changes everything in the universe. But the Architect beyond that is
Atman/Brahman, and Buddhi is thus Atman in motion. The Thinker is farther
down the line from this.




In short, it all gets back to a KNOWLEDGE of LAW and LAWS.

Bruce: I would say that Atma/Buddhi does not give two figs for our
knowledge of law and laws. Once Buddhi becomes active it destroys all our
knowledge of laws and replaces it with another kind of knowledge. However,
I shouldn't be so definite about not "giving two figs for our knowledge of
law and laws," because it is through certain accurate knowledge that we are
able to progress up the evolutionary ladder, so that Buddhi can finally
become active and show us "a higher way," as Jesus put it.



This is universally constant and is present in all of us to some degree.
Are we trying to develop that? What is the most efficient way of doing
that? Is it not critical study of the records of the past with a view to
synthesizing for ourselves a view of those analogies and correspondences
that repeat themselves? Can we not review and codify those repetitions
until we perceive the operation of some kind of cyclic laws there?

Bruce: Buddhi is "universally constant" only in the sense of being an
expression of Atman, and Atman is the Ray of the Universally constant.
However, that does not mean without Motion, because Motion is "constant" or
to put it another way, Change is constant. There is always change, and
Kundalini is Buddhi in Motion, or Buddhi manifesting in profound change in
the perception and being of the individual. Thus although the process of
codifying laws may be helpful in making it possible for Manas to perceive
pattern and to perceive the nature of cyclic laws, V of S says that at some
point we must transcend that "Hall of Learning" and perceive in another way.
Kundalini is presented in that book as the means by which the old Manas way
of seeing is finally transcended, so that a new vision may emerge.
Kundalini is not itself the new vision but a Force which transforms the way
of seeing.



Are we not the CHOOSERS when we make plans and do we not constantly use
some aspects of Kundalini but, have not yet identified them?

Bruce: We can choose on many different levels. We make choices for bodily
comfort, or for activation of our desires, or for adopting certain ideas
(body, Kama, Manas), but it would appear that at some point we must also
choose a "higher way," the way of the Spirit, the way of Atma/Buddhi, where
we seek "enlightenment." Now, in the same way as the "Lighting up of Manas"
was not something which early races "chose" consciously, because they had no
idea what that process entailed, so also when we choose the Way of
Atma/Buddhi, we do not consciously know what we are getting into, because
Manas cannot tell us what is there. Rather we become open to the operation
of Atma/Buddhi, and then at some point, Buddhi becomes active and is a
"transforming fire." Thus, I disagree with Gopi Krishna who thinks of every
act of genius as an expression of Kundalini. Manas is capable of genius,
but that is not necessarily Buddhi, and I do not think that Manas and the
lower nature can "use" kundalini as you suggest, since Kundalini is Buddhi
which cannot be "used" by anything. Buddhi manifests it its own way.



All this goes to show that we are independent entities:

Bruce: "We" are independent entities only so far as we are not slaves to
the lower nature or even slaves to Manas, since Manas can easily be fooled.
We must transcend Manas to be "independent," to manifest our true nature.
Manas is still one of the things which keeps us in the world of appearances,
however codified, whereas the consciousness which is Atma/Buddhi frees us
from that constraint.



But, also, the MIND is not US. The Mind is our TOOL.

Bruce: Agreed.



How do we get to know it better? What are its strengths and what are its
weaknesses?

Bruce: We get to know the Mind better by being aware of its limitations and
by paying attention to our intuitions, our transcendent nature, Atma/Buddhi,
through Silence and the perceptions which arise from Silence. Its strengths
are that it can bring us to the doors of the higher perception although it
cannot open those doors: its weaknesses are that it can trap us in the
lower nature which sees only limits and separation and pattern as things of
the mind.

Peace, Bruce

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