Theos-Talk Archives (August 2001 Message tt00000)

Your arguments (to be frank:-) are total baloney, and your one tracked, 
narrow minded ranting has gone beyond all levels of propriety. The only 
"TRUTH" worth talking about in this forum are the fundamental truths of 
theosophy -- not YOUR opinionated, self labeled "truths" (more like gossip, 
which HPB abhored) that focuses on personalities rather than theosophical 
study, and puts the organization in the same catagory as the individual 
student. 

No organization has any claim to being theosophical in itself, and can only 
be judged by the quality of its members along with its stated theosophical 
principles, aims, goals, and ends in view -- which they all agree to follow. 
The personal actions of any of them, or their self chosen or elected 
"leaders" has no relation to the value each individual student gets from the 
independent "self devised and self determined" study of the teachings as 
originally presented by HPB and the Masters. Maybe you should read the ULT 
Declaration again... And let us know where it says anything about personality 
or leaders (other than including them in the catagory of "side issues" that 
it has "no time or inclination to take part in.").

Your proofs -- of what? Some supposed disagreements between long dead 
leaders, based on nothing more than hearsay and spurious documents that have 
nothing to do with independent or group theosophical studies? -- are as 
vacuous and unfounded as your prejudices and your opinions. 

Your "master race" philosophy of labeling people -- not of your self 
righteous ilk, who may need theosophy to help them reach "self realization," 
and in the process, strengthen their character -- as "weak" or "neurotic," 
and excluding them as worthless members of our theosophical brotherhood, is 
in direct violation of theosophical principles that prove "universal 
brotherhood" is a "law of nature." It is also in direct contradiction to the 
objects of the Theosophical Movement that, right from the beginning, regarded 
as Theosophists "all who are engaged in the true service of Humanity, without 
distinction of race, creed, sex, condition or organization." So, how does 
that square with your idea of a "good theosophist"? 

Any other idea that its the organizational form or its leadership that's 
important, rather than the individual, smacks of the same sort of ersatz 
theosophcal distortions propounded by Hitler in his Mein Kampf. Theosophy 
has no room for nazism, or those that parrot their ideas of dictatorial 
government, and use their propaganda techniques to foment dissension with the 
aim of destroying groups that don't agree with the "parrots'" dictatorial and 
fascistic "politics." (It doesn't deserve the distinction of calling it 
"philosophy"). So, start acting llike a real "theosophist," or go form your 
own dictatorial non-theosophical political party in another forum.

LHM 


In a message dated 07/31/01 3:29:02 PM, ringding@blinx.de (Frank) writes:

>Louis:
>who are newly awakened, is not being violated here. If we continue to belabor
>the PERCEPTUAL DIFFERENCES of organizational theosophy, when do we find
>time to serve one another with the evolving, LIVING theosophy, of today.
>
>Frank:
>For a Theosophist there is NO distinction between word and action.
>If you want to play ostrich and live further on with LIES (if you admit
>that only one version can be true) then you are free to do so.
>But to new students it would be shameful to play further on the good
>Theosophist and at the same time suppress the truth - which is not 
>LIVING, but KILLING Theosophy.
>The TS was started to fight for the truth and not for the peace of misleaded
>students.
>A student who loves the truth and acts unpersonally researches in all
>directions and considers all facts, even if they might contradict its own
>views. To play ostrich in historical matters (which of course do affect the
>present) means not only prevent newbies from the truth, it is also a sigh
>of selfishness.
>
>Louis:
>Can we really afford to loose a single, true seeker whose awakening spirit
>has been drawn to the magnetic center of esoteric studies?
>
>Frank:
>No we can't afford it. That is the reason why we have just right now the
>discussion to find out the truth. As long there is no TRUTH among
>Theosophists as long there will be only attraction to the weak ones, to
>neurotics etc. But the Theosophical Movement has no need for such people,
>at least in any position as it is the aim of the TS to create a new culture
>and a new civilization. That can only be done with strong people, with will,
>power, discrimination and compassion, not with weak, sentimental psychics.
>
>Louis:
>Perhaps another list needs to be started that clearly states, it deals only
>with the BATTLEGROUND ISSUES OF HISTORICAL THEOSOPHY! Could be 
>very popular indeed.
>
>Frank:
>Perhaps with an ULT member as "moderator"??
>I don't think so. This list is quite right for any discussion.
>Perhaps you don't understand it, but although we are talking about matters
>long years back they are nevertheless matters of the PRESENT as the problems
>are still unsolved.
>And, seriously: How can I trust in any person or organization of TODAY
>of which I have proofs that they lied in the past to the public and to its
>members?
>To my humble opinion it is time for tabula rasa.
>We Theosophists should be strong enough to solve our problems for ourselves,
>otherwise there will come third parties taking over our job. Is it that
>what you want? Surely not.
>The ULT'ers are invited to live Theosophy - as you say - and lay the truth
>on the table.
>This is the only way a progress of the Theosophical Movement can have any
>success. The ostrich policy gives perhaps some peace for weak souls, but it 
is the
>death blow for Theosophy.