Theos-Talk Archives (July 2001 Message tt00297)

Thursday, July 26, 2001

Dear Friends:

I must say that I am surprised to not have received directly
something that contradicts my statements:

I said that there was no PARENT LODGE.

Los Angeles ULT is merely the oldest. There is no PARENT LODGE of
the U.L.T. Such a concept may have dwelt in minds that were un
clear about the meaning of the DECLARATION in the past.

But even of this I have had no evidence as to how voiced or by
whom said. I maintain that under the DECLARATION, it would be
incorrect, as the Los Angeles Lodge has no "superiority" or
"control" over any other Lodge with which it is affiliated by
close brotherly ties based on that same DECLARATION. . Hence it
can, and HAS NO 'POWER' to CHARTER anyone. Something is
incorrect or misunderstood here.

I would add that it sounds confused, because if true it would
contravene the DECLARATION of the U.L.T. and the concept of
"association". and "volunteering." On the other hand I do n to
know everything, unfortunately, and if there may be something of
that nature, I would like to see it or know where it might be
found. I have not seen or heard of any such document here in the
Lodge at Los Angeles I am curious, of what possible value would
it have ? No associate, and certainly no Lodge bows to, or is
able to comply with any kind of "force majeure." Let's
understand the underlying principle. It is based on the
ubiquitous nature of the SPIRIT -- of ATMAN. Every human is
deemed to be ATMA at their core. Brotherhood is deemed to be a
fact in nature. We can therefore consult but not give orders.
Volunteers don't take orders but they consider reasonable
requests. Hence the basis for all cooperative work at any U.L.T.
is conferencing.

The DECLARATION of the U.L.T. might be called our universal
charter, and it enfranchises every "associate."

If other ULTers say there are "Charters" then, may I see them, or
hear about them ? I am really curious. I ask for PRIMARY
documents and not "hear-say."

As to the "chartering business" Can any one produce any document
in which this is said or enacted?

If someone states this is wrong, then let them stand up and say
it publicly. If I am wrong then I will admit it publicly, as I
have invariably done, and given reasons.

Dallas


====================================

-----Original Message-----
From: Blavatsky Archives [mailto:blavatskyarchives@yahoo.com]
Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2001 5:00 PM
To: Leon Maurer

Subject: Thank you Leon for your clarification


Daniel Caldwell writes:
Leon, you write:

"So, Daniel, Dennis, et al -- why not accept all that at face
value . . . and STOP these endless loaded questioning attempts to
recreate ULT in the image of your own organizationally oriented
prejudices. . . "

But Leon the question in the last day or so was whose view were
WE to
accept at fact value.

You wrote quite plainly:

"For example, many years ago I set up a ULT study group in
Florida,
that . . . could have been chartered by the Parent ULT as an
independent Lodge.' "

Then Dallas wrote that what you wrote was in error and that there
is
no Parent ULT and therefore it could not charter the said ULT
study
group.

Don't you agree that Dennis et al including myself might have
some
reason to be confused and puzzled by such opposing points of
view?
So whose view were we to take at FACE VALUE --- yours or
Dallas'??

DTB READ THE DECLARATION -- HOW WOULD ONE SET ABOUT
CHATTERING ANY GROUP OR LODGE ?


But thanks for the clarification of your view although I have now
received more emails from other ULT associates who say that
Dallas is
wrong about this "chartering" business!!

DTB well they have not written me. So I guess I am hanging
by my finger nails --


One more thing and I will let this subject drop. You write that
Dennis and others including myself are trying "to recreate ULT in
the
image of your own organizationally oriented prejudices." What
does
that mean? So we have prejudices in this area but you do not? I
admit that maybe Dennis and I may not have a clear understanding
of
this subject but I wouldn't call that a prejudice. And since
this is
a theosophical discussion forum, maybe this would be a good place
where those who really know what is going on could shed some
light on
the confusing subject.


DTB I admit I am curious by the direction this is taking.
What is the motive behind it?


Daniel