Theos-Talk Archives (July 2001 Message tt00092)

Dear John:

Glad to see your answer.

As to Frank: His point of view is that and ORGANIZATION is
essential. I don't think he gets the idea that one can be
INDEPENDENTLY DEVOTED TO THE CAUSE OF THEOSOPHY.

He seems to want the support of an organized group that can tell
him what to do. Remember that the ULT is a 6th ROUND concept
experimentally set in a 5th ROUND situation where rigidity as to
government, finances, regulations, and personal history and
responsibility is demanded. Only those Egos who understand
responsibility and volunteerism appreciate this.

So I do not respond to what he says, he only gets angrier.

As to the position of Mr. Crosbie -- and his leaving Point Loma,
the bio-notes explain it.


Let me send you a couple of attachments on the BIO of Crosbie and
Judge -- might help. Also on Wadia and his work. And a couple
of things on the U.L.T.

If you want something more specific, then ask me I may be able to
provide it.

Dal

=======================

-----Original Message-----
From: Compiler [mailto:compiler@wisdomworld.org]
Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2001 8:11 PM
To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: Theos-World ULT Day Letter

Frank,

Like Wes, I'm also somewhat "puzzled" about your thoughts
concerning Robert
Crosbie. Why? Because, unless I'm mistaken, back in the early
days of the 20th
Century, when the "original" Teachings were not much in use any
more, nor were
the main original teachers, HPB and WQJ, featured, he was heavily
involved, was
possibly even the main and guiding influence, with starting both
the United
Lodge of Theosophists and The Theosophy Company. I think the
general idea was
known as going "back to Blavatsky", or "back to basics", or
something like
that. Wasn't ULT begun to get students back to basics, to the
study of the
"original" teachings, and without all of the formal workings of
heavy
organization and conflicting leaderships? Wasn't it the case that
is was THE
THEOSOPHY COMPANY which was solely responsible for bringing "The
Secret
Doctrine", "Isis Unveiled", "The Key to Theosophy", and so on
wherever it may
be the case, back on the scene in the middle of all that was
going on back
then?

If the above things are more or less correct, how does your
picture of Robert
Crosbie fit with the above view of the situation? If I'm somewhat
wrong or even
way off base, hopefully you and others can repaint the picture
correctly.

Fraternally,

John DeSantis
(Compiler)
-------

Wes Amerman wrote:

> Frank answers:
> That is exactly the problem with the ULT and why the founder
Robert Crosbie
> was kicked out - the unfitness und unreadyness to recognize the
duties and
> the wide spread of such poisonal, twisted thinking over the
decades is one
> of the main reasons why the structure und organization of the
whole theos.
> movement - whether ULT, Adyar, Pasadena - today is nothing else
that a dead
> body, a parody of the original TS.
>
> How can this wrong thinking of a single individual and his
unfitness to
> follow the clear instructions of the Masters and their
messengers be a good
> thing or even an example which we should follow. We should
learn from the
> past and not be proud about the mistakes of some unlucky
individuals. If
> there is no one who cares for organization then there will be
chaos.
>
> Dear Frank,
>
> I'm really puzzled by your comments.
>
> What is there about students getting together without formal
organizational
> ties that bothers you? It seems to me that this openness is
the very spirit
> of Theos-Talk, and why we are able to discuss things here
without
> interference, in a forum of open and free inquiry. How is
this approach
> "poisonal, twisted thinking?"
>
> How is "the problem with the ULT" the cause of trouble in the
"whole
> theosophical movement?" What part of the "clear instructions
of the
> Masters" did Crosbie fail to follow, and what duties does his
approach
> avoid?
>
> It seems to me that the "organization" problems of the movement
that you
> refer to are often precisely because of an over-emphasis on
politics,
> structure, who-gets-to-be-leader disputes, etc. Has your
experience with
> "chaos" been such that you value "organization" so very highly?
How would
> you suggest that we "care for organization" to be able to learn
from the
> past and avoid "the mistakes of some unlucky individuals?"
>
> For what it may be worth, I for one have been critical of the
> mis-applications made of these ideals by ULT Associates. But I
see it as a
> failure in practice, not a failure of principle. As Eldon once
said, "we
> tend to judge ourselves by our best motives, and to judge
others by their
> most recent, worst mistakes."
>
> Anticipating your reply,
>
> With Best Regards,
> Wes
>
>
>
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