Theos-Talk Archives (July 2001 Message tt00095)

Dallas,

I hope you will only post copies, or links to pages on the internet, to
whatever information you want me to see, as I do not open any file
"attachments" out of fear of being infected with a computer virus.

On another note, as a student who has studied in the ULT system myself, let
me ask you, and others who are knowledgeable old-time associates, close to
the inner workings of it all, to kind of explain a little how the ULT
actually functions; how The Theosophy Company functions; who gets to be
editors of the THEOSOPHY magazine, who doesn't; who decides what articles
are written and selected for publication; who gets to say yes or no as to
the way things run at ULT; how any changes and new projects proposed by any
associate, say one who is not an insider, so to say, are said yes or no to;
and so on in these sorts of things, that would generally be called by most
people as "organizational" activities.

dalval14@earthlink.net wrote:

> Dear John:
>
> Glad to see your answer.
>
> As to Frank: His point of view is that and ORGANIZATION is
> essential. I don't think he gets the idea that one can be
> INDEPENDENTLY DEVOTED TO THE CAUSE OF THEOSOPHY.
>
> He seems to want the support of an organized group that can tell
> him what to do. Remember that the ULT is a 6th ROUND concept
> experimentally set in a 5th ROUND situation where rigidity as to
> government, finances, regulations, and personal history and
> responsibility is demanded. Only those Egos who understand
> responsibility and volunteerism appreciate this.
>
> So I do not respond to what he says, he only gets angrier.
>
> As to the position of Mr. Crosbie -- and his leaving Point Loma,
> the bio-notes explain it.
>
> Let me send you a couple of attachments on the BIO of Crosbie and
> Judge -- might help. Also on Wadia and his work. And a couple
> of things on the U.L.T.
>
> If you want something more specific, then ask me I may be able to
> provide it.
>
> Dal
>
> =======================
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Compiler [mailto:compiler@wisdomworld.org]
> Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2001 8:11 PM
> To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: Theos-World ULT Day Letter
>
> Frank,
>
> Like Wes, I'm also somewhat "puzzled" about your thoughts
> concerning Robert
> Crosbie. Why? Because, unless I'm mistaken, back in the early
> days of the 20th
> Century, when the "original" Teachings were not much in use any
> more, nor were
> the main original teachers, HPB and WQJ, featured, he was heavily
> involved, was
> possibly even the main and guiding influence, with starting both
> the United
> Lodge of Theosophists and The Theosophy Company. I think the
> general idea was
> known as going "back to Blavatsky", or "back to basics", or
> something like
> that. Wasn't ULT begun to get students back to basics, to the
> study of the
> "original" teachings, and without all of the formal workings of
> heavy
> organization and conflicting leaderships? Wasn't it the case that
> is was THE
> THEOSOPHY COMPANY which was solely responsible for bringing "The
> Secret
> Doctrine", "Isis Unveiled", "The Key to Theosophy", and so on
> wherever it may
> be the case, back on the scene in the middle of all that was
> going on back
> then?
>
> If the above things are more or less correct, how does your
> picture of Robert
> Crosbie fit with the above view of the situation? If I'm somewhat
> wrong or even
> way off base, hopefully you and others can repaint the picture
> correctly.
>
> Fraternally,
>
> John DeSantis
> (Compiler)
> -------
>
> Wes Amerman wrote:
>
> > Frank answers:
> > That is exactly the problem with the ULT and why the founder
> Robert Crosbie
> > was kicked out - the unfitness und unreadyness to recognize the
> duties and
> > the wide spread of such poisonal, twisted thinking over the
> decades is one
> > of the main reasons why the structure und organization of the
> whole theos.
> > movement - whether ULT, Adyar, Pasadena - today is nothing else
> that a dead
> > body, a parody of the original TS.
> >
> > How can this wrong thinking of a single individual and his
> unfitness to
> > follow the clear instructions of the Masters and their
> messengers be a good
> > thing or even an example which we should follow. We should
> learn from the
> > past and not be proud about the mistakes of some unlucky
> individuals. If
> > there is no one who cares for organization then there will be
> chaos.
> >
> > Dear Frank,
> >
> > I'm really puzzled by your comments.
> >
> > What is there about students getting together without formal
> organizational
> > ties that bothers you? It seems to me that this openness is
> the very spirit
> > of Theos-Talk, and why we are able to discuss things here
> without
> > interference, in a forum of open and free inquiry. How is
> this approach
> > "poisonal, twisted thinking?"
> >
> > How is "the problem with the ULT" the cause of trouble in the
> "whole
> > theosophical movement?" What part of the "clear instructions
> of the
> > Masters" did Crosbie fail to follow, and what duties does his
> approach
> > avoid?
> >
> > It seems to me that the "organization" problems of the movement
> that you
> > refer to are often precisely because of an over-emphasis on
> politics,
> > structure, who-gets-to-be-leader disputes, etc. Has your
> experience with
> > "chaos" been such that you value "organization" so very highly?
> How would
> > you suggest that we "care for organization" to be able to learn
> from the
> > past and avoid "the mistakes of some unlucky individuals?"
> >
> > For what it may be worth, I for one have been critical of the
> > mis-applications made of these ideals by ULT Associates. But I
> see it as a
> > failure in practice, not a failure of principle. As Eldon once
> said, "we
> > tend to judge ourselves by our best motives, and to judge
> others by their
> > most recent, worst mistakes."
> >
> > Anticipating your reply,
> >
> > With Best Regards,
> > Wes
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
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