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RE: Can we meet "PERFECTED MEN?"

Jan 15, 2001 05:44 AM
by dalval14

Monday, January 15, 2001

Dear Bill:

We are all "student/teachers" -- and if we do our work properly
we pass on to others anything they need which we happen to have a
reference for. So there is no "wisdom" implied. In fact each
one of us develops his own "wisdom: as he approaches, through his
studies, ever closer to an understanding of the immortal HIGHER
SELF (ATMA) within him, (as it is also present in every other
living being -- in potential or in some stage of conscious
development). Some have compared this idea with the
"omnipresence" attributed to God. Atma/Spirit is actually a
common principle -- SPIRIT (and half of the MONAD -- which is

With SPIRIT, matter is always associated, and it is held that
uncountable "monadic lives" pervade the entire UNIVERSE and
constantly interact with each other. As they progress through
the various stages of experience, these immortal "life-atoms"
acquire experience and progress in themselves, constantly
advancing towards a goal, broadly defined as "Perfection."

The best teacher is our own INTUITION and the VOICE OF
CONSCIENCE. This emanates from the Monad (atma-Buddhi) and
impinges on the embodied Mind (or Lower-Manas, as our waking mind
is deemed to be a combination of the Powers of the Mind and our
passions and desires).

An "external teacher" is not any one individual, but may be found
to include the whole of the Universe, the Earth, the Solar
System -- it is our Oneness that is impacted, and we have to
decide to seek, understand, remember and apply.

Our learning is a state of mind coupled with a determination to
learn all we can about ourselves and environment. This will
include therefore the rules and laws of evolution and the great
beings (once men like we are) who learned them and became through
their own efforts totally harmless to all beings, generous,
brotherly, and They assume no tiles, or positions and never one
of "authority."

Theosophy considers each man to be his own "authority." He has
the capacity and the potential to master the Universe. Of
course he is viewed as an immortal MONAD or "Eternal Pilgrim."
He is unconditionally immortal, and to arrive at his present
position (as an individual, independent mind), he has already
passed through aeons of lives and experience.

As humans we are in a peculiar stage where in our minds all the
factors of evolution (the past) and our hopes (for the future)
are merged, and placed (Mentally) on a stage where, with the help
of a knowledge of the great LAWS of justice, fairness, and of the
unassailable equity of Nature's laws we may proceed to guide our
own fate by our present decisions. This is indeed a very
"knife-edge" on which our own future is placed by Nature (not
another man) and is entirely in our own hands.

If you read through Theosophical literature you will find this
condition is constantly referred to.

As to the future and a final goal, I found one of the Masters of
Wisdom speaking on that:

"What emerges at the end of all things is not only "pure and
impersonal spirit," but the collective "personal" remembrances
skimmed off every new fifth principles [Mind-Manas] in the long
series of the cyclic process , since every purified
Ego has the chance in the long interims between objective exist as a Dhyan Chohan--up to the highest Planetary
[Spirit], enjoying the fruits of its collective lives." [ ML 158]

You will find in H.P.B.'s KEY TO THEOSOPHY a similar statement
(p. 143-4, 121-2, 183-4)

If one uses the concept that Perfected Men are so because of
their WISDOM, Knowledge, and impersonality, then the matter of
their individuality is more or less settled -- they are
"different" as the permanent substance of their "vesture-body"
adheres to them individually and voluntarily. They are the
result of a very long line of efforts unremittingly pursued and
generously shared with millions of others in evolution. Can they
disagree? Of course they are free-willed, and are always under
the LAW OF KARMA -- which adjusts everything. Perhaps they are
always independent as to method, for each evolves their own as
permitted by the LAW OF KARMA and COMPENSATION as these operate
impartially and cooperatively in NATURE (the UNIVERSE). But as
to the kind of disagreements we find here, based on desires,
passions, wants and needs, that has been abolished long ago -- or
they would not be GREAT SOULS (Mahatmas). If you desire to see
an outline of the "path" to Adeptship and Mahatmaship, then read
THE VOICE OF THE SILENCE. It is sketched there.

If you wish to look into the matter of the relations of the two
minds in man, the Higher Mind (or BUDDHI-MANAS --" wise mind")
with the embodied mind (Lower Mind /Manas) the best set of
references I can think of will be found in TRANSACTIONS OF THE
BLAVATSKY LODGE, where H.P.B. discussed the SECRET DOCTRINE with
her contemporaries and students. It is between pp 66 and 78 (ULT
Edition) -- in Blavatsky: COLLECTED WORKS you will find it
printed in Vol 10, pp 252 to 263

This kind of study is most rewarding, but also it takes some time
to adjust one's mind to the new (to us) concept that the MORAL
UNIVERSE bears a constant and most important relation to the
physical, mental, ideal and passionate planes o our being.
Through these various planes (or spheres) we see the ONE
CONSCIOUSNESS, that is the "WE" or the "I" in us, proceeding,
unaffected, and always the Examiner, or Perceiver -- examining
for their real worth the phenomena of experience, and constantly
recording in its vast MEMORY the results -- and thus our
knowledge of KARMA grows, and we can apply it to our decision
making all through life.

I hope this proves to be of some help.

Best wishes,



-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Meredith []
Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2001 10:20 PM
To: Theosophy Study List
Subject: Re: Can we meet "PERFECTED MEN?"

Dallas, you are obviously a learned and wise man and I am
fortunate to be
able to eavesdrop on the profound knowledge Theosophy, of HPB,
and of her
works that you, jerome, Peter, and several others exchange for
our benefit
on this list as well as BN-SD. I shall attempt to follow the
advice that you have presented. Being the "child in school", as
obviously am, I wonder if it is better to question the teacher,
to test the
teacher so to speak, thus developing my own cognizance, or is it
best for
my evolution toward perfection to simply take the teacher at
his/her word,
thus making the teacher's awareness my own? In other words, when
we have
each evolved through the eons into perfected men, will we be each
just like
the other or will I be perfect in my way and you in yours? Will
we be
fraternal brothers or identical twins or Siamese twins joined at
the corona
and sharing the one universal heart? Can adepts be at odds with
each other?
Can two Masters disagree? Can two perfect men be different? As
I know you
answer a lot of questions and have insight into many other areas
of inquiry
I will
understand if you give the answer that I should "read the book."

Bill Meredith

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