Theos-Talk Archives (November 2000 Message tt00079)

Leon,

You've been lurking an awe-ful lot lately. I am so very pleased that you
have written. Thankyou so much. It is hard for me to read your stuff.
Sincerely. I get tears in my eyes. It is so beautiful. It gives me hope.
Faith is evidence of that which is not yet seen. I feel your mastery and
love of the subject. I'm trying not to overdo this but failing.

Gene


----- Original Message -----
From: <leonmaurer@aol.com>
To: <theos-talk@egroups.com>
Sent: Friday, November 10, 2000 11:55 PM
Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: 0 + 1 and their friends.


> Lucas and Sham have made some interesting observations that pose equally
> interesting questions.
>
> Thinking about the meaning of numbers and their relationship to existence
> growing out of nonexistence -- with the idea of explaining such thoughts
in
> words certainly is quite a difficult subject and poses quite a difficult
> problem.
>
> Perhaps the following ruminations can help clarify it a bit.
>
> 1. "Existence" relates to the fullness of being, to the measurable
dimensions
> of manifest space and its forms, as well as to the phenomenal
relationships
> between its parts. It may be described objectively in words.
>
> 2. "Nonexistence" relates to the absolute absence, "voidness" or
"emptiness"
> of these attributes prior to manifestation. Therefore, while it may have
> essential aspects or potentialities, it has no attributes, is ineffable,
and
> cannot be described in words (except as negatives, such as, "not this, not
> that").
>
> Yet, nonexistence when considered scientifically as a "singularity" that
is
> the source of all existence, is of the same nature of what in theosophy is
> called the "Absolute" or "Beness" (Parabrahm), and contains all the
potential
> aspects that underlie the primal "Being" (Brahma) as well as all
subsequent
> beings that evolve and involve out of or through them.
>
> According to theosophy, in order for manifest energy to exist, this
Absolute
> non existence must contain "infinite potential energy" in the form of
> "abstract motion." All this would be confined within the initial
> singularity, or "Zero (Laya) Point," which may be considered as
nonexistent,
> non-phenomenal, or numberless from the point of view of existence. Such
> infinite energetic motion, therefore, is the "noumena" of all subsequent
> phenomena, and empowers the Initial "One Life" as well as each of the
> succeeding "lives" of the entire "Manifest" universe, while determining
the
> laws of cycles and periodicity (the basis of Karma) that governs the
> "evolution" and "involution" of its polar opposites -- "Matter" (the basis
of
> Form), and "Spirit" (the basis of "Consciousness").
>
> We won't discuss here the various stages of growth of these "lives"
starting
> from the initial stages... But, we will consider how no-number leads to
> number, how abstract nonlinear motion leads to concrete linear motion, and
> how "no time," or *infinite* duration, leads to *finite* linear time.
>
> Since the nonexistent, unmanifest or unborn "Absolute" must contain
abstract
> motion and "infinite" potential energy in order to empower the existent
> phenomenal motion and energy of the manifest universe... If we can imagine
> it, we could possibly understand that the only way such initial nonlinear
> motional energy can serve the above purposes of phenomenal evolution and
> involution -- while still remaining "nonexistent" or empty of
attributes --
> is if such "abstract motion" could be encased in the primal, unmanifest
> zero-point in the form of closed circles of energetic spin ("spinergy")
> surrounding and within an imaginary spherical "Space" having zero diameter
> and zero circumference. (This is incredibly difficult to picture in the
mind,
> although it could be imagined by a certain method of abstract subtractive
> thinking, somewhat like peeling an onion.) Also, because of the seven
fold
> motional aspects of any circle or cycle (See NOTE 2 below), as well as the
> infinite frequencies of such spins and their inherent harmonics, this
> spinergy would necessary have 7 inherent aspects representing 7 potential
> layers or phases, analogous to the 7 fold frequency scales, octaves, or
> spectrums we experience in both music and light on the phenomenal planes.
> (See Cosmic Evolution, Stanza I, SD I-27)
>
> It should be noted, however, that although such initial "spinergy" is
> entirely dimensionless and without attributes, and is totally "isolated"
from
> metric space and time (Refer to Patanjali's description of
"enlightenment")
> -- it is also the eternal "Causeless Cause" or "Rootless Root" of the
Cosmos.
> Therefore, it is nonexistent when considered only from a physical point of
> view. However, it is also the fundamental basis of universal or "God"
> consciousness.
>
> In such a view, since both zero (dimension) and infinite (energy) are
> entirely beyond all enumeration, the numbers zero and infinity are totally
> descriptive of such "nonexistence." However, it should be noted that,
since
> between zero and infinity all numbers must exist phenomenally or
potentially,
> both zero and infinity, as well as "nonexistence" itself are still of a
> dynamic nature -- and do, in fact, "exist" in eternity froess cause, or
> Absolute rootless root, does not mean it is static or dead. In essence,
this
> essential and infinite spinergy nature of the Absolute, at it extreme end
(or
> beginning) must be the eternal root of all Life throughout a near infinite
> number of potential universes. Also, by the nature of holographic
vibratory
> (cyclic) interference patterns of information that can impose themselves
on
> any motional or energetic lines of force, whether manifest or unmanifest,
> this spinergy nature of the Absolute "nonexistence" can account for the
> retention of experiential memory and intelligence by our Universe when it
is
> absorbed in the Absolute during its condition of Pralaya, or rest, during
any
> cycle of evolution.
>
> It is logical to assume, then, that when such a nonexistent point of
infinite
> energetic spin (at infinite frequency) expands from within outward to form
> the first manifestation of the initial universal field, it generates an
> outward flow of energy into dimensional space that ultimately forms a
> spherical field whose lines of force extend from the center outward
through
> one pole, continuing around the circumference, and then returning inward,
> back to the center through the opposite pole -- completing its entire,
> endless path by looping around again in the opposite direction in three
> cycles that repeat endlessly -- much like the magnetic energy field
> surrounding the Earth that flows endlessly from the center of the earth,
out
> through the North Pole, and then around and back to the center through the
> South Pole.
>
> If we cross sectionally cut through our imaginary image of this initial
> spherical field (See NOTE 1 below), we see that the initial shape of any
one
> continuous line of force originating from the center and flowing around
the
> outer surface must cross through its center, and follows the path of a
figure
> 8 inscribed inside a circle. Thus, this initial field (Brahma) is actually
> triune in nature -- having two fields or dimensions (Vishnu, Shiva) within
> the interior of the outer field or dimension. These 3 primal spatial
> dimensions can also be considered as equivalent to the all containing
nature
> of the primal source (Mulaprakriti), within which is contained the field
of
> the root of manifest consciousness (Perusha) and the field of the root of
> manifest Matter (Prakriti). These two inner fields then evolve further,
as
> both frequency and energy decrease on each descending plane, to form
> additional fields within fields within fields, like bubbles within bubbles
> within bubbles. This involution proceeds in succeeding numbers of fields
from
> 3 to 7 to 15, until the initial stage of universal manifestation is
> complete... After which the Universe continues to involve, as above, so
> below, and subsequently evolve in accordance with karmic law.
>
> Since these fields are now physically 3-dimensional in nature, have
expanded
> or evolved linearly in Time, and can be measured -- the first whole
numbers
> come into play. It follows, at this initial stage, that cyclic law has
been
> fully expressed, the three aspects of every cycle, positive, negative and
> neutral are established... And, as the inner spheres, continue to divide
("As
> Above, So Below") in an infinite progression down to the smallest
particle,
> all numbers come into play, cyclic law is activated and governs all
> subsequent action or Karma, and the 1, 3, 7, 10, 12, 14, etc., aspects of
all
> fields begin to manifest themselves on every level.
>
> NOTE 1: For a clearer picture of how these "coadunate but not
consubstantial"
> fields interrelate and evolve from their initial center points (which are
> everywhere), check out the Chakrafield (cross sectional) Diagram at: <A
>
HREF="http://members.aol.com/uniwldarts/uniworld.artisans.guild/chakrafield.
ht
>
> ml">How It All Began</A>
> http://members.aol.com/uniwldarts/uniworld.artisans.guild/chakrafield.html
>
> Understand that this process of field involution is identical on both the
> Macrocosmic and microcosmic planes, and is the basis of the Hermetic
> statement, "As above, so below." Also consider that the 2-dimensional
> diagrams are entirely symbolic... Since, the actual "zero point" centers
of
> origin and intersection of all fields and their sub fields exist in an
inner
> folded, multidimensional space (that is beyond all imagining by finite
minds)
> where all the non-dimensional zero points are in the same relative
location.
> This accounts for the non-locality of consciousness that may be the basis
of
> all "psychical (mental) powers latent in Man," and confirms the
paradoxical
> philosophical statement, "the absolute is relative, and the relative is
> absolute."
>
> NOTE 2: To follow the seven changes of state of any cycle, begin sine wave
> from zero (neutral) charge (0), then upwardly increase positive charge (1)
to
> maximum positive peak charge level (2), then downwardly decrease positive
> charge (3) to neutral charge level (4), then downwardly increase negative
> charge (5) to maximum negative valley charge level (6), then upwardly
> decrease negative charge (7) to return to zero (neutral) charge (0). This
> seven fold nature of the electrical sine wave is analogous to the "Harmony
of
> the Spheres," the octave nature of musical tones, the primary colors of
> light, and the 7 fold nature -- whether latent or expressed -- of the
> universe and all the evolved beings within it.
>
> I hope all these ideas serve as some useful food for thought in our
attempts
> to understand the true nature of reality.
>
> LHM
>
> In a message dated 11/08/00 7:33:07 PM, brigid.lucas@lycos.com writes:
>
> >Thank You Shampan-e-Shindh (by the way what does your name mean -
> >just curious). I do appreciate your message.
> >
> >This is a subject that has occupied my mind for some time. The
> >question seems to me: "From where did existence come? I know I exist,
> >that everyhting else that exists exists, but how did It All come about?"
> >
> >Since I've read certain books, I have conceptualized existence and
> >non-existence being (or not being) at the same time (the best I could
> >at least). This is some of what I feel I can gather from such books
> >as "The Upanisads", but I could never be certain that this is what
> >was being said. It is nice to know that the same concept is shared.
> >I wonder if the One has knowledge of how It started existing out of
> >non-existence? Quite a difficult subject to say the least!
> >
> >Thanks again,
> >Lucas of Brigid
> >
> >--- In theos-talk@egroups.com, Shampan-e-Shindh <shampan@z...> wrote:
> >> Dear Mr Carpenter and List,
> >>
> >> Numbers counting and their various progressions are all numeric
expression
> >> of occurrence / existence.
> >>
> >> To go to roots, basics, fundamentals.. let's start from where it all
began.
> >>
> >> What are numbers? .. The comparison of everything in quantity (that is
> >> what we invented numberings for, it is our invention, only one point of
> >> view WE invented)
> >>
> >> One stick exists, another stick exists.. together.. they are 2 sticks.
> There is
> >> no such thing as "no sticks".. but we can imagine .. where "there are
no
> >> sticks"; only then .. no sticks is a reality.. Thus 0 sticks. In that
> context,
> >> of course 0 is an existence.
> >>
> >> Those are things which are "countable" or comparable to one another
in
> >> quantity. There are things which are not countable. That is where
numbers
> >> fail to be the expressions of these existences. Numbers can only
signify
> >> things which are structured in solid form due to their atomic
structures..
> >> You cannot count water.. If you example "a drop of water". I can bring
> >> another drop and mix with it, and they both become one drop.
> >>
> >> Yes .. there is where all numbers actually merge with more facts than
> >> "number-science" as significantly as materialistic existence
(touchables)
> >> with non-materialistic existence's (untouhcables).. Somewhat the same
> >> as.. the smallest particles of an object are not quite touchable
> materials..
> >> yet when they are in the usual circumstance they might create a
physique.
> >> You see .. all these, we are still considering, ... ALL THESE in
regards
> to
> >> things we can sense.. either by physical touch, or hear or vision ..
or
> some
> >> other ways. We might not be able to notice many occurrences .. that is
> >> where we have found to numeric expression opening up the gates to ..
> >> those un-noticed existances, but we know they exist.. those 2 numeric
> >> expressions are ..0 and infinity.
> >>
> >> Opens up a whole lot of discussions. You know it is all like a 3
> dimensional
> >> jigsaw puzzle. Just by numbers you have one little part of the whole
> puzzle..
> >> there are all other concepts that need to click.. And when they do..
you
> >> know you got something.. But how on earth are you going to explain it
in
> >> words..?
> >>
> >> Sham
>
>
>
>
>