Re: Theos-World Re: 0 + 1 and their friends.
Nov 10, 2000 11:55 PM
Lucas and Sham have made some interesting observations that pose equally
Thinking about the meaning of numbers and their relationship to existence
growing out of nonexistence -- with the idea of explaining such thoughts in
words certainly is quite a difficult subject and poses quite a difficult
Perhaps the following ruminations can help clarify it a bit.
1. "Existence" relates to the fullness of being, to the measurable dimensions
of manifest space and its forms, as well as to the phenomenal relationships
between its parts. It may be described objectively in words.
2. "Nonexistence" relates to the absolute absence, "voidness" or "emptiness"
of these attributes prior to manifestation. Therefore, while it may have
essential aspects or potentialities, it has no attributes, is ineffable, and
cannot be described in words (except as negatives, such as, "not this, not
Yet, nonexistence when considered scientifically as a "singularity" that is
the source of all existence, is of the same nature of what in theosophy is
called the "Absolute" or "Beness" (Parabrahm), and contains all the potential
aspects that underlie the primal "Being" (Brahma) as well as all subsequent
beings that evolve and involve out of or through them.
According to theosophy, in order for manifest energy to exist, this Absolute
non existence must contain "infinite potential energy" in the form of
"abstract motion." All this would be confined within the initial
singularity, or "Zero (Laya) Point," which may be considered as nonexistent,
non-phenomenal, or numberless from the point of view of existence. Such
infinite energetic motion, therefore, is the "noumena" of all subsequent
phenomena, and empowers the Initial "One Life" as well as each of the
succeeding "lives" of the entire "Manifest" universe, while determining the
laws of cycles and periodicity (the basis of Karma) that governs the
"evolution" and "involution" of its polar opposites -- "Matter" (the basis of
Form), and "Spirit" (the basis of "Consciousness").
We won't discuss here the various stages of growth of these "lives" starting
from the initial stages... But, we will consider how no-number leads to
number, how abstract nonlinear motion leads to concrete linear motion, and
how "no time," or *infinite* duration, leads to *finite* linear time.
Since the nonexistent, unmanifest or unborn "Absolute" must contain abstract
motion and "infinite" potential energy in order to empower the existent
phenomenal motion and energy of the manifest universe... If we can imagine
it, we could possibly understand that the only way such initial nonlinear
motional energy can serve the above purposes of phenomenal evolution and
involution -- while still remaining "nonexistent" or empty of attributes --
is if such "abstract motion" could be encased in the primal, unmanifest
zero-point in the form of closed circles of energetic spin ("spinergy")
surrounding and within an imaginary spherical "Space" having zero diameter
and zero circumference. (This is incredibly difficult to picture in the mind,
although it could be imagined by a certain method of abstract subtractive
thinking, somewhat like peeling an onion.) Also, because of the seven fold
motional aspects of any circle or cycle (See NOTE 2 below), as well as the
infinite frequencies of such spins and their inherent harmonics, this
spinergy would necessary have 7 inherent aspects representing 7 potential
layers or phases, analogous to the 7 fold frequency scales, octaves, or
spectrums we experience in both music and light on the phenomenal planes.
(See Cosmic Evolution, Stanza I, SD I-27)
It should be noted, however, that although such initial "spinergy" is
entirely dimensionless and without attributes, and is totally "isolated" from
metric space and time (Refer to Patanjali's description of "enlightenment")
-- it is also the eternal "Causeless Cause" or "Rootless Root" of the Cosmos.
Therefore, it is nonexistent when considered only from a physical point of
view. However, it is also the fundamental basis of universal or "God"
In such a view, since both zero (dimension) and infinite (energy) are
entirely beyond all enumeration, the numbers zero and infinity are totally
descriptive of such "nonexistence." However, it should be noted that, since
between zero and infinity all numbers must exist phenomenally or potentially,
both zero and infinity, as well as "nonexistence" itself are still of a
dynamic nature -- and do, in fact, "exist" in eternity froess cause, or
Absolute rootless root, does not mean it is static or dead. In essence, this
essential and infinite spinergy nature of the Absolute, at it extreme end (or
beginning) must be the eternal root of all Life throughout a near infinite
number of potential universes. Also, by the nature of holographic vibratory
(cyclic) interference patterns of information that can impose themselves on
any motional or energetic lines of force, whether manifest or unmanifest,
this spinergy nature of the Absolute "nonexistence" can account for the
retention of experiential memory and intelligence by our Universe when it is
absorbed in the Absolute during its condition of Pralaya, or rest, during any
cycle of evolution.
It is logical to assume, then, that when such a nonexistent point of infinite
energetic spin (at infinite frequency) expands from within outward to form
the first manifestation of the initial universal field, it generates an
outward flow of energy into dimensional space that ultimately forms a
spherical field whose lines of force extend from the center outward through
one pole, continuing around the circumference, and then returning inward,
back to the center through the opposite pole -- completing its entire,
endless path by looping around again in the opposite direction in three
cycles that repeat endlessly -- much like the magnetic energy field
surrounding the Earth that flows endlessly from the center of the earth, out
through the North Pole, and then around and back to the center through the
If we cross sectionally cut through our imaginary image of this initial
spherical field (See NOTE 1 below), we see that the initial shape of any one
continuous line of force originating from the center and flowing around the
outer surface must cross through its center, and follows the path of a figure
8 inscribed inside a circle. Thus, this initial field (Brahma) is actually
triune in nature -- having two fields or dimensions (Vishnu, Shiva) within
the interior of the outer field or dimension. These 3 primal spatial
dimensions can also be considered as equivalent to the all containing nature
of the primal source (Mulaprakriti), within which is contained the field of
the root of manifest consciousness (Perusha) and the field of the root of
manifest Matter (Prakriti). These two inner fields then evolve further, as
both frequency and energy decrease on each descending plane, to form
additional fields within fields within fields, like bubbles within bubbles
within bubbles. This involution proceeds in succeeding numbers of fields from
3 to 7 to 15, until the initial stage of universal manifestation is
complete... After which the Universe continues to involve, as above, so
below, and subsequently evolve in accordance with karmic law.
Since these fields are now physically 3-dimensional in nature, have expanded
or evolved linearly in Time, and can be measured -- the first whole numbers
come into play. It follows, at this initial stage, that cyclic law has been
fully expressed, the three aspects of every cycle, positive, negative and
neutral are established... And, as the inner spheres, continue to divide ("As
Above, So Below") in an infinite progression down to the smallest particle,
all numbers come into play, cyclic law is activated and governs all
subsequent action or Karma, and the 1, 3, 7, 10, 12, 14, etc., aspects of all
fields begin to manifest themselves on every level.
NOTE 1: For a clearer picture of how these "coadunate but not consubstantial"
fields interrelate and evolve from their initial center points (which are
everywhere), check out the Chakrafield (cross sectional) Diagram at: <A
ml">How It All Began</A>
Understand that this process of field involution is identical on both the
Macrocosmic and microcosmic planes, and is the basis of the Hermetic
statement, "As above, so below." Also consider that the 2-dimensional
diagrams are entirely symbolic... Since, the actual "zero point" centers of
origin and intersection of all fields and their sub fields exist in an inner
folded, multidimensional space (that is beyond all imagining by finite minds)
where all the non-dimensional zero points are in the same relative location.
This accounts for the non-locality of consciousness that may be the basis of
all "psychical (mental) powers latent in Man," and confirms the paradoxical
philosophical statement, "the absolute is relative, and the relative is
NOTE 2: To follow the seven changes of state of any cycle, begin sine wave
from zero (neutral) charge (0), then upwardly increase positive charge (1) to
maximum positive peak charge level (2), then downwardly decrease positive
charge (3) to neutral charge level (4), then downwardly increase negative
charge (5) to maximum negative valley charge level (6), then upwardly
decrease negative charge (7) to return to zero (neutral) charge (0). This
seven fold nature of the electrical sine wave is analogous to the "Harmony of
the Spheres," the octave nature of musical tones, the primary colors of
light, and the 7 fold nature -- whether latent or expressed -- of the
universe and all the evolved beings within it.
I hope all these ideas serve as some useful food for thought in our attempts
to understand the true nature of reality.
In a message dated 11/08/00 7:33:07 PM, firstname.lastname@example.org writes:
>Thank You Shampan-e-Shindh (by the way what does your name mean -
>just curious). I do appreciate your message.
>This is a subject that has occupied my mind for some time. The
>question seems to me: "From where did existence come? I know I exist,
>that everyhting else that exists exists, but how did It All come about?"
>Since I've read certain books, I have conceptualized existence and
>non-existence being (or not being) at the same time (the best I could
>at least). This is some of what I feel I can gather from such books
>as "The Upanisads", but I could never be certain that this is what
>was being said. It is nice to know that the same concept is shared.
>I wonder if the One has knowledge of how It started existing out of
>non-existence? Quite a difficult subject to say the least!
>Lucas of Brigid
>--- In email@example.com, Shampan-e-Shindh <shampan@z...> wrote:
>> Dear Mr Carpenter and List,
>> Numbers counting and their various progressions are all numeric expression
>> of occurrence / existence.
>> To go to roots, basics, fundamentals.. let's start from where it all began.
>> What are numbers? .. The comparison of everything in quantity (that is
>> what we invented numberings for, it is our invention, only one point of
>> view WE invented)
>> One stick exists, another stick exists.. together.. they are 2 sticks.
>> no such thing as "no sticks".. but we can imagine .. where "there are no
>> sticks"; only then .. no sticks is a reality.. Thus 0 sticks. In that
>> of course 0 is an existence.
>> Those are things which are "countable" or comparable to one another in
>> quantity. There are things which are not countable. That is where numbers
>> fail to be the expressions of these existences. Numbers can only signify
>> things which are structured in solid form due to their atomic structures..
>> You cannot count water.. If you example "a drop of water". I can bring
>> another drop and mix with it, and they both become one drop.
>> Yes .. there is where all numbers actually merge with more facts than
>> "number-science" as significantly as materialistic existence (touchables)
>> with non-materialistic existence's (untouhcables).. Somewhat the same
>> as.. the smallest particles of an object are not quite touchable
>> yet when they are in the usual circumstance they might create a physique.
>> You see .. all these, we are still considering, ... ALL THESE in regards
>> things we can sense.. either by physical touch, or hear or vision .. or
>> other ways. We might not be able to notice many occurrences .. that is
>> where we have found to numeric expression opening up the gates to ..
>> those un-noticed existances, but we know they exist.. those 2 numeric
>> expressions are ..0 and infinity.
>> Opens up a whole lot of discussions. You know it is all like a 3
>> jigsaw puzzle. Just by numbers you have one little part of the whole
>> there are all other concepts that need to click.. And when they do.. you
>> know you got something.. But how on earth are you going to explain it in
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