Theos-Talk Archives (September 2000 Message tt00014)

Dear Dallas,

Enjoyed your posts on meditation and dialogue (copy) with Jerry S.

As I don't belong to the Theosophy Study List I normally just read them and
enjoy.

However, may I offer a view this time around?  From what I can tell, the
Manas that Jerry refers to is more like the definition of Manas as found in
the Samkhya Philosophy (and hence standard Sanskrit exoteric dictionary)
where it stands for mind and discursive thought.  (It is not the definition
of Manas used by HPB in Theosophy but it would apply to some aspects of
Lower Manas.)  Thus, in this system (Samkhya) it is not very high up on the
list  - as the EXOTERIC chart below shows.  Thus:

Purusha (spirit) stands on its own as pure consciousness, interacting with
Prakriti with its twenty five tattvas divided as follows.


                            Prakriti (Primal Matter made up of 3 gunas)

                             Buddhi   (Intellect)

                            Ahamkara  (ego, feeling of 'I am')

Manas.  5 Buddhindriyas. 5 Karmendriyas.   5 Tanmatras.     5 Mahabhutas.
(Mind) (sensing organs)  (action organs)  (subtle elements) (gross elements)

          Hearing         Speaking            Sound             Space
          Feeling         Grasping            Touch             Wind
          seeing          Walking             Form              Fire
          tasting         Excreting           Taste             water
          Smelling        Procreating         Smell             Earth

(I hope the above comes out in the right spacing and alignment)

If one uses (theosophists might say "limit") the term Manas in the way
Samkhya and Jerry does then of course to transcend thought is to transcend
Manas / Mind.   I am suprised that Jerry believes HPB uses the term Manas in
any way approaching the Unconscious of Jung.  We might well see similarities
between Jung's 'Collective Unconscious' and the Alaya-vijnana of the
Buddhists.  But I think he would need to offer a specific example from HPB's
writings to substantiate his claim.

Most students of HPB's work know the lower Manas *with* Kama is mortal,
while the term higher Manas is used to stand for the Immortal Individuality,
that which reincarnates.  As we find in the Secret Doctrine:

"What is human mind in its higher aspect, whence comes it, if it is not a
portion of the essence -- and, in some rare cases of incarnation, the very
essence -- of a higher Being: one from a higher and divine plane?" (SD II
81)

Strictly speaking the real lower Manas, in its own right, is a pure ray of
the Higher Manas which descends during incarnation.  While it gets 'soiled'
during earth life, a part of it remains pure.  This 'pure' part is the
antakharana (the bridge between higher and lower manas during incarnation).
It is aptly symbolised in the Bhagavad Gita by Sanjaya, the adviser to the
Blind King Dhritarasthra (Kama-Manas, the personality).  As you know, while
the King (the personality) is blind, it is Sanjaya who is able to see Arjuna
(Higher Manas, the Individuality) and Krishna (the Higer Self, Atma-Buddhi)
and thus acts like a link between 'higher' and 'lower'.  When we think of
Manas in this three-fold way, especially of the pure ray of the Lower Manas
we see that the deeper aspects of Meditation concern not simply a
'transcending' of the personality, it is also a 'withdrawal' of that which
is pure in the Lower Manas.  Hence HPB's description below:

> "There comes a moment in the highest meditation,
> when the Lower Manas is withdrawn into the
> Triad, which thus becomes the Quaternary, the
> Tetraktys of Pythagoras...This withdrawal of the
> Lower Manas from the Lower Quaternary, and the
> formation of the Tetraktys, is the Turya state;
> it is entered on the Fourth Path." (IGT 193)

We might wonder whether the starting point for this is described in the
VOICE OF THE SILENCE, where we find:

"Silence thy thoughts and fix thy whole attention on thy Master whom yet
thou dost not see, but whom thou feelest.
Merge into one sense thy senses, if thou would'st be secure against the foe.
'Tis by that sense alone which lies concealed within the hollow of thy
brain, that the steep path which leadeth to thy Master may be disclosed
before thy Soul's dim eyes."
(from Voice of the Silence: Fragment One)

Do we perhaps catch a glimpse of the Blind King, Dhritarasthra, in the above
passage and the antakharana bridge which leads to the Higher Triad?

Just some thoughts feel free to use them as you wish.

best wishes

Peter




> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dallas Tenbroeck [mailto:dalval@nwc.net]
> Sent: 08 September 2000 19:11
> To: Theosophy Study List
> Subject: RE: Second Response to Dallas on Meditation
>
>
> Sept 8th 2000
>
> Dear Jerry
>
> While vocabularies and the meaning of terms will differ, the
> point that I understand Theosophy (as an age-old philosophy)
> makes is that the ONE SPIRIT pervades all things, whether
> manifest or non-manifest.  It cannot be defined in terms of
> space, time, motion, energy, etc... which are all the kinds of
> variables we are attempting to relate to in terms of our memory,
> and some points in space, time and energy which we arbitrarily
> fix as either "starting POINTS" or as "Memories."


-- THEOSOPHY WORLD -- Theosophical Talk -- theos-talk@theosophy.com

Letters to the Editor, and discussion of theosophical ideas and
teachings. To subscribe or unsubscribe, send a message consisting of
"subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to theos-talk-request@theosophy.com.