Theos-Talk Archives (September 2000 Message tt00017)

Sept 11  (already !)

Dear Peter:

As I am short on time and very short on physical energy, I now
tend to cut across some of the lines set out, and refer to those
that the Theos. Philos. focuses on, in a (to me) logical and
consecutive way.

Sankhya and Vedanta (also Advaita) philosophy are "points of
view"  ( 6 'Schools of Indian Philosophy'  in total )  -- but the
7th is their synthesis (Sanatana Dharma - the Eternal Doctrine)
and as I see it (with the help of Theosophy) it resolves
differences (as the GITA does) by going to the Source CAUSE of
BEING and of all beings -- which is not traceable in physical and
compounded nature and objects, but rather in their noumenal
CAUSE.  [see SD I 610 - 633 on GODS, MONADS and ATOMS].

I make no claim to being a metaphysician, as such would be
unprovable.  But following the logic of the unobtainables, yet
necessary, causes, sources and the bridges that reconcile
opposing positions, one (I think) may obtain a fair grasp of the
cohesive and yet 'invisible' links to the WHOLE  (of which we see
only a part)  [see, for instance: KEYSTONE in ISIS I 571-2, 563,
ii 438 (top) -- a correlate to the universal and primitive
Sun-worship]  Keystone being pentagonal in cross section yet as a
solid has 7 surfaces (in this 5th "Globe" and 5th "Race")  These
represent the present manifestation of the 5-fold ONE at this
time;  but implicit therein are also the SUPREME TRIANGLE
("wedge-shape") representing the UNIVERSAL THREE  [Spirit -
Wisdom (Law in process) and MIND or the universal PLAN that leads
all "atoms, humans, worlds, universes" to a self-conscious
perception of the UNITY of All in ALL.  [Total:  10 ]

In any type of meditation one is either active (creative) or
passive (including a review of the established memories made
during the creative process).  The important point is that it is
always THE ONE CONSCIOUSNESS that is operating in ALL CASES.
Without THAT ONE CONSCIOUSNESS there would be complete chaos and
no STABLE POINT OF REFERENCE.

The one stable point is always the REAL MAN  (Atma-Buddhi-Manas)
The Embodied consciousness is always doubtful, wavering, and
constantly fearful of its continued existence.  The Higher Manas
is always fearless and knows it is IMMORTAL.  It gives us the
courage to continue studying ourselves, our powers and Nature
around us -- meaning Karma in action as relates to other beings
and their impact (of various kinds) on us, and ours on them.

So I am not following the limitations of any one of the old
Indian philosophical views (nor the modern Orientalists and
translator's interpretation of them).  I feel I have to use
Theosophy to strike out on the basis that it provides, and which
I have found reconciles the differences in the others.

Does this help?

Dal



D. T. B.

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-theos-talk@theosophy.com
[mailto:owner-theos-talk@theosophy.com]On Behalf Of Peter
Merriott
Sent: Saturday, September 09, 2000 4:32 PM
To: theos-talk@theosophy.com
Subject: Theos-World Re: Second Response to Dallas on Meditation


Dear Dallas,

Enjoyed your posts on meditation and dialogue (copy) with Jerry
S.

As I don't belong to the Theosophy Study List I normally just
read them and
enjoy.

However, may I offer a view this time around?  From what I can
tell, the
Manas that Jerry refers to is more like the definition of Manas
as found in
the Samkhya Philosophy (and hence standard Sanskrit exoteric
dictionary)
where it stands for mind and discursive thought.  (It is not the
definition
of Manas used by HPB in Theosophy but it would apply to some
aspects of
Lower Manas.)  Thus, in this system (Samkhya) it is not very high
up on the
list  - as the EXOTERIC chart below shows.  Thus:

Purusha (spirit) stands on its own as pure consciousness,
interacting with
Prakriti with its twenty five tattvas divided as follows.


                            Prakriti (Primal Matter made up of 3
gunas)

                             Buddhi   (Intellect)

                            Ahamkara  (ego, feeling of 'I am')

Manas.  5 Buddhindriyas. 5 Karmendriyas.   5 Tanmatras.     5
Mahabhutas.
(Mind) (sensing organs)  (action organs)  (subtle elements)
(gross elements)

          Hearing         Speaking            Sound
Space
          Feeling         Grasping            Touch
Wind
          seeing          Walking             Form
Fire
          tasting         Excreting           Taste
water
          Smelling        Procreating         Smell
Earth

(I hope the above comes out in the right spacing and alignment)

If one uses (theosophists might say "limit") the term Manas in
the way
Samkhya and Jerry does then of course to transcend thought is to
transcend
Manas / Mind.   I am surprised that Jerry believes HPB uses the
term Manas in
any way approaching the Unconscious of Jung.  We might well see
similarities
between Jung's 'Collective Unconscious' and the Alaya-vijnana of
the
Buddhists.  But I think he would need to offer a specific example
from HPB's
writings to substantiate his claim.

Most students of HPB's work know the lower Manas *with* Kama is
mortal,
while the term higher Manas is used to stand for the Immortal
Individuality,
that which reincarnates.  As we find in the Secret Doctrine:

"What is human mind in its higher aspect, whence comes it, if it
is not a
portion of the essence -- and, in some rare cases of incarnation,
the very
essence -- of a higher Being: one from a higher and divine
plane?" (SD II
81)

Strictly speaking the real lower Manas, in its own right, is a
pure ray of
the Higher Manas which descends during incarnation.  While it
gets 'soiled'
during earth life, a part of it remains pure.  This 'pure' part
is the
antakharana (the bridge between higher and lower manas during
incarnation).
It is aptly symbolised in the Bhagavad Gita by Sanjaya, the
adviser to the
Blind King Dhritarasthra (Kama-Manas, the personality).  As you
know, while
the King (the personality) is blind, it is Sanjaya who is able to
see Arjuna
(Higher Manas, the Individuality) and Krishna (the Higher Self,
Atma-Buddhi)
and thus acts like a link between 'higher' and 'lower'.  When we
think of
Manas in this three-fold way, especially of the pure ray of the
Lower Manas
we see that the deeper aspects of Meditation concern not simply a
'transcending' of the personality, it is also a 'withdrawal' of
that which
is pure in the Lower Manas.  Hence HPB's description below:

> "There comes a moment in the highest meditation,
> when the Lower Manas is withdrawn into the
> Triad, which thus becomes the Quaternary, the
> Tetraktys of Pythagoras...This withdrawal of the
> Lower Manas from the Lower Quaternary, and the
> formation of the Tetraktys, is the Turya state;
> it is entered on the Fourth Path." (IGT 193)

We might wonder whether the starting point for this is described
in the
VOICE OF THE SILENCE, where we find:

"Silence thy thoughts and fix thy whole attention on thy Master
whom yet
thou dost not see, but whom thou feelest.
Merge into one sense thy senses, if thou would'st be secure
against the foe.
'Tis by that sense alone which lies concealed within the hollow
of thy
brain, that the steep path which leadeth to thy Master may be
disclosed
before thy Soul's dim eyes."
(from Voice of the Silence: Fragment One)

Do we perhaps catch a glimpse of the Blind King, Dhritarasthra,
in the above
passage and the antakharana bridge which leads to the Higher
Triad?

Just some thoughts feel free to use them as you wish.

best wishes

Peter




> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dallas TenBroeck [mailto:dalval@nwc.net]
> Sent: 08 September 2000 19:11
> To: Theosophy Study List
> Subject: RE: Second Response to Dallas on Meditation
>
>
> Sept 8th 2000
>
> Dear Jerry
>
> While vocabularies and the meaning of terms will differ, the
> point that I understand Theosophy (as an age-old philosophy)
> makes is that the ONE SPIRIT pervades all things, whether
> manifest or non-manifest.  It cannot be defined in terms of
> space, time, motion, energy, etc... which are all the kinds of
> variables we are attempting to relate to in terms of our
memory,
> and some points in space, time and energy which we arbitrarily
> fix as either "starting POINTS" or as "Memories."


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