Re: Theos-World Re: New Website on the Early History of the Theosophical Soci...
May 09, 2000 02:22 PM
In a message dated 4/17/00 5:09:51 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
In a message dated 04/16/00 3:00:02 AM, email@example.com writes:
>O no, not again that idiotic pseudo-scientific and pseudo-
>theosophical fairy tale book.
>If the University of Vienna calls on their web-site this really
>an "scientific" book we first have to talk about what is Science.
Oh no, not again... Another idiotic prejudgement based on nothing more than
rumors -- that attempt to denigrate theosophy without any knowledge of what
it really teaches. Shades of the 1890s British Psychical Society, and the
other "Luddites" prior to that time -- and afterwards.
The teachings of theosophy have to be taken on their own thoroughly
understood merits... And, no research (valid or not) by historical
attempting to prove or disprove the truth or falsity of HPB's claims about
her association with "Masters of Wisdom" has any value in that respect.
Perhaps you ought to read the Mission Statement as well as the history of
University of Vienna before doubting its authority as one of the foremost
world class centers of scientific teachings and religious philosophies. >>
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe you grossly misunderstood what
Frank said. You wrote an extremely long e-mail in response to him, basically
defending the University of Vienna. But Frank did not mention the UV at all.
He was complaining (and rightly so, in my humble view) about J. Paul
I think JPJ has done us all a great service in one respect: In his work, he
has shown -- beyond a shadow of a doubt -- that HPB DID know personally a
number of scholars and adventurers of her time. That fact confirms the fact
that she did travel around the world as a very serious student -- that she,
like them, was a scholar & world-trotter, a female Indiana Jones of her time.
Since her travels had been disputed by many authors (who, now we know for
sure, thanks to JPJ, did not have the evidence for their unsupported
OPINIONS), JPJ has done a great service to HPB scholarship, in that sense.
But when it comes to the subject of the Masters, JPJ turns out to be no
better than HPB's best detractors of former times, who seemed to feel it was
"open season" on her, without the need to provide evidence. JPJ claims in
all of his books that there were no Masters at all in early TS history, &
that HPB INVENTED them (as others had claimed she had invented her travels).
But JPJ DELIBERATELY ignores the main sources of evidence for their real
physical existence. To my mind, although there are other sources, the main
1. Colonel Henry Steel Olcott's six volumes of Old Diary Leaves, backed by
archival material. Olcott provided numerous signed affidavits of the
physical visits of the Masters, in the period covered between 1874-1907.
These affidavits were signed by a number of people who met the Masters
physically, many of whom had no connection with the TS, & therefore no
apparent reason to lie. The signings of these affidavits were in turn
witnessed by third parties, in every instance.
Olcott earned his rank in the Civil War because of his radical honesty,
capacity to detect fraud, & tremendous courage: He was in charge of
investigating fraud & graft in the military during the war, saved the country
millions of dollars (what would be billions in today's market), & put away
quite a number of criminals, who often threatened his life. That is why he
was put in charge of the then extremely sensitive investigation into the
assassination of President Lincoln, because of the very high esteem in which
he was held by both those of the North & the South.
Throughout his life, Olcott was at various times a scientist (he wrote an
important book on sorghum), a lawyer, and a journalist. All these
professions require having a very sharp mind, and the ability not to be
easily duped. Further, he was one of the most highly respected psychic
investigators of his time (until just before he met HPB, when his life
changed), because of all the psychic frauds he exposed.
JPJ NEVER mentions the evidence carefully collected over so many years by
Olcott. The only possible explanations I can think of for this neglect are
either that JPJ is ignorant of Olcott's overwhelming evidence, or that he had
a preconceived opinion before he began doing his "research." If he was
ignorant of Olcott's critical evidence, he is no researcher, since that
should have been a major source for his work. If he knew Olcott's vital
evidence, but deliberately hid it from his readers, he is no researcher,
because in that case he is more interested in promoting an opinion for which
he KNOWS there is no evidence. In either case, he is no researcher.
2. Geoffrey Barborka, in The Mahatmas and Their Letters, provides additional
evidence for the physical existence of the Masters in that period. JPJ does
not address this scholarly research, just as he had not addressed Olcott's
3. In my book The Inner Life of Krishnamurti, I provide what I think is very
strong evidence to the effect that J. Krishnamurti had a very close contact
with the Masters throughout his very long life, from the time when he was a
boy, until 10 days before he died. For reasons I give there, I believe this
evidence to be even stronger than that of Olcott. Briefly, it provides, in
addition to that of the Masters' physical presence throughout K's life, the
internal evidence of a teaching that I show in my work to be at the leading
edge of philosophy, psychology, and education, among other fields. JPJ
ignores this, as well.
If the University of Vienna considers such to be the level of quality of the
research it looks for, then, no matter how successful in other areas, in this
particular instance the UV is supporting PREJUDICE, not RESEARCH. As I think
I have shown here, that is a FACT.
I agree with you that, in the end, HPB's relationship to the Masters is not
so much what matters, as the intrinsic worth of her work. On the other hand,
if there were Masters physically present in her life, as she said all along,
that fact needs to be taken into account in any FAIR presentation of the
facts. To assume, in blatant disregard for the facts, that something is not
the case simply because one decides personally that it cannot be (perhaps for
some idiotic reason), does not do honor to ANY university, nor to any
In good cheer,
-- THEOSOPHY WORLD -- Theosophical Talk -- firstname.lastname@example.org
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