Theos-Talk Archives (September 1999 Message tt00116)

Rich:
| Now Nicholas -- how do we know that M and KH were UPASAKAS?  I thought
that
| was Their word for HPB, because she was out in the worldly world --
but I
| assumed (perhaps wrongly?) that the two Masters Themselves were
celibate?
| This is an important point, and will strongly affect my dissertation!

Any lay male Buddhist who takes refuge and 1, 2, 3, 4 or all 5 basic
vows is an Upasaka.  A lay woman is an Upasika.  But I was just using
shorthand for "non-monk" .  Technically there are Upasakas who take far
more vows, including celibacy.   There are also Ngag-pas -- which term a
Gelong (Tib. for bhikshu) in the "Tibetan Teachings" article applies to
(possibly) M or KH.  These Ngag-pas dress in white and are not quite
laymen, but neither are they bhikshus.  They also can be celibate. The
obvious appearance of a Buddhist bhikshu -- shaved head and face, maroon
and/or yellow robes does not fit the bearded, long-haired M & KH.  Also
HPB says in "Mr. Arthur Lillie" (CW 6, 292-93)  "No one ever dreamt of
saying that the Mahatma [KH] was a 'Tibetan monk' or Lama."  HPB says
the same applies to her Guru M too.   Also: "*neither of the Mahatmas*
whose names are known in the West *are monks*" [HPB's emphasis]  Also
consider ML letter #45 where "Young Portman" is considering becoming a
"Tibetan monk" like he thinks M & KH are.  KH writes: "His ideas are
singularly mixed upon the two entirely different characteristics and
qualifications of the `Monk' or *Lama* and the living 'Lha', or
*Brother*..."  That say pretty plainly that the Brothers M & KH are not
Bhikshus.

So, yes, I think  M & KH are celibate, but not because they are
Bhikshus.  One of the more obscure HPB letters (which I will find if you
wish) said the Brotherhood is an Eastern type of  Masonry, implying to
me a Brotherhood of laymen, not monks.  That does not mean all members
are laymen, after all the latest major reformer of the Tibetan branch
was Je Tsongkhapa -- a Bhikshu, Bodhisattva and Adept.

Best,

Nicholas

Nicholas Weeks <> nick.weeks@.att.net <> Los Angeles
"The only refuge for him who aspires to true perfection is Buddha
alone."


-- THEOSOPHY WORLD -- Theosophical Talk -- theos-talk@theosophy.com

Letters to the Editor, and discussion of theosophical ideas and
teachings. To subscribe or unsubscribe, send a message consisting of
"subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to theos-talk-request@theosophy.com.