Theos-Talk Archives (December 1998 Message tt00236)

Dec 21st 1998

Dear Bart:

If what you write can be substantiated, please give me the
references to check.  I want primary and not 2nd or 3rd level
sources, please.  Or, are you basing yourself on hearsay ?

I quote your posting in part:

==========================================================

W. Dallas TenBroeck wrote:
> I read your recent positing, and I read with chagrin that you
see
> fit to reproduce (without and proof or additional supporting
> facts, the old calumny that HPB is supposed (by some writers
and
> detractors) to have practiced fraud.  What escapes my
> comprehension is why should she have done this ?  Further, who
> are they to determine that they have doubts and suspicions of
> here.  What are they based on?  Do you have them to share with
me
> ?

	She did commit fraud. She stated that the Mahatmas produced
phenomena
that she, herself produced. Moria got so angry about it, he broke
his
pipe. At least according to Koot Hoomi.

> I would say from having read and researched most of the early
> literature (books, articles, magazines, letters, etc...) of the
> Theos. Movement of this era, that HPB had no reason to do
> anything that was not honest and straightforward.

	She wanted to demonstrate that there was more to the world than
one's
senses could detect. Faked Sidhi's can demonstrate that almost as
well
as the real thing.

	As far as the rest of your statement goes, you are going way
beyond my
statement. I stated that almost certainly (leaving room for a
shadow of
a doubt), HPB faked AT LEAST SOME of her phenomena. The phrase
"at least
some" can and should be taken to mean that at least some were not
faked.
And I then pointed out that, even if she did so, she did so to
prove a
point that could be proven by faked Sidhi's.

=========================================


Bell ringing was common among fraudulent spiritualists.  Have you
read A MODERN PANARION on HPB's phenomena described there ?  Have
your read Olcott's OLD DIARY LEAVES ?  Have you read Sylvia
Cranston's "HPB " ?  Have you been through the first few volumes
of BLAVATSKY, COLLECTED WORKS ?  There you will find printed most
if not all of the early correspondence and newspaper exchanges
between HPB and her contemporaries.

If you trying to employ the "Hodgson Report" - that has been
shown defective.  Have you read Vernon Harrison's Monograph on
the authenticity of the MAHATMA LETTERS ?  [ Published recently
by TUP, Pasadena ].

Fortunately "bell-ringing" is not the basis for denigrating HPB's
integrity, or her "phenomena". What do you think of the shower of
roses produced at the request of a visiting German professor who
called on her (without prior notice)in Benares ?  He asked her
towards the end of the interview if the reports of Vedic Sages
being able to create a shower of flowers was true and possible -
and she demonstrated it as a fact, immediately, the last rose
falling on his departing nose.  And the MAHATMA LETTERS has much
more to teach than small details about the Master Moriya
"breaking his pipe."  Or do you not think that some 400 pages of
Their letters is to be summarized and dismissed in such a
cavalier fashion ?

In my esteem the writing of THE SECRET DOCTRINE and ISIS UNVEILED
is a demonstration of "phenomena" far beyond anyone's present
capabilities  - and if that is not conclusive phenomena then,
what is ?  But one has to take a lot of time to study that if one
desires to be competent to criticize HPB and the philosophy of
Theosophy.

Try and put the whole of her work and life into perspective.  If
"bell-ringing" is the only thing that is important or suspect -
to you - then that is very "small potatoes."  And you were not
there, nor was I, and hence the best we can do is to adduce for
our judgment what others have written and said.

But we are not entitled to be selective, we have to consider all
the evidence.  None of those writers that I have read have ever
challenged HPB on the basis of simple "bell-ringing."  Have they
?  If so, where ?  Is THEOSOPHY to be jettisoned because of an
unproven accusation ?  If so, it is flimsy indeed, and does not
deserve further consideration by serious thinkers !  is that what
you mean ?

To me the ethical and moral implications of Theosophical
philosophy and the underlying esotericism and occultism would be
entirely vitiated if HPB had at any time been fraudulent.  As far
as I am aware the kind of calumny arose starting with the Hodgson
report - which has proved to be entirely unreliable if not
dishonest.

What is the nature and range of the claims that HPB was
"fraudulent"  Have you investigated ?  Do you have any data or
references to offer to us who read what you write ?  should we
put our trust in you alone for an unsubstantiated opinion ?

In my esteem your responses show you have neither cause nor
ability to try to demean her if you are using 2nd and 3rd level
"sources."  She certainly cannot be "dragged down" to "our very
ordinary level."  And the repetition of unfounded "gossip" is
quite unworthy of these pages.

And that is my opinion.  Now, may I see what facts you have ?

Dallas